Monday Night Woes

[Doc Hydrogen]

I guess it would be rhetorical

Thinking about this is akin to me saying "I am going to use my stretching power to contain the D10 explosion."

Very heroic, except if the bomb never goes off how does it make sense to apply my 25 Total and D12 Effect?

On the other hand, it *could* make sense for some type of power (Hex, Magic, Luck) to affect the Doom Pool directly in such a way.

Well, since there's no bomb present without spending doom (potential to kinetic energy, kinda like Gambit), then there's nothing to worry about until the Watcher spends the die and puts the distinction / complication in there. Once it's there, you sure could use that stretching power to remove it, say by containing th explosion or slingshotting that nasty thing into the air, or into an evil giant metal robot. Just sayin'.

[chaosnet]

Exactly Doc H!

In my analogy (flawed as it may be), the Doom Pool represents the bomb before it explodes. Mucking about with it not withstanding, there is nothing to do about it until it explodes in which case I use my awesome stretchyness to contain it.

In my mind the Doom Pool represents the potential for things to go awry for the heroes, or for things to get out of hand via additions to the scene such as new villains (called in back up), scene distinctions (so that a villain can use their personal distinctions at D4 and grown the DP more), complications and assets. Once the potential is given life it can be ineracted with.

[Supplanter]

Exactly Doc H!

In my analogy (flawed as it may be), the Doom Pool represents the bomb before it explodes. Mucking about with it not withstanding, there is nothing to do about it until it explodes in which case I use my awesome stretchyness to contain it.

In my mind the Doom Pool represents the potential for things to go awry for the heroes, or for things to get out of hand via additions to the scene such as new villains (called in back up), scene distinctions (so that a villain can use their personal distinctions at D4 and grown the DP more), complications and assets. Once the potential is given life it can be ineracted with.

Let me remove any potential confusion on this point: I am not failing to understand your argument. I'm just disagreeing with it.


Jim

[MidnightBlue]

On a side note: I find it disturbing that the word "narrative" has become a negative thing for some. That's probably because after having played, run, playtested and disigned/tinkered with a TON of RPGs, MHR's narrative-first approach to roleplaying is what has pushed it up to one of my favorite RPG systems of all time.

I think you mean me here.

True, you have been the most vocal(?)...visual(?)...about getting replies to your posts that use the term "narrative" and "narrative-first" as the dirty words of the community.

If you put a gun to my head and made me declare my single favorite RPG ever,...

That WOULD be tough to do wouldn't it? Soooooo many games....so many interests...just too little time.

So I don't have a problem with narrative games, or narrative as a gaming value. I just have some issues with the terms "narrative" and "narrative-first" as they tend to be used in the discourse of this forum.


Jim

Well...I can't speak to others' usages, but I generally mean that while the game does have mechancis, the mechanics have to run through a narrative filter in MHR.

In a lot of games, the rules are the rules...mechanics are hard and fast and solid and rules lawyers are the masters of those realms. While roleplaying can and definitely does still happen in those games (many of which I'm a long time player, GM and fan of), the story elements and narrative support the mechanics. If a mechanic says you can or can't do something, then that's what happens and the story and narrative has to bend around it.

I don't see MHR that way...I see it as the opposite of those systems.

MHR has rules (as all games need), but first you come up with a narrative. If no one calls BS on that narrative, then dice pools are made and tossed and outcomes decided upon. But no matter what the rules say you MIGHT be capable of doing or not doing, you have to filter those rules through the narrative first.

In other words, I consider MHR to be a Narrative-First game. The rules are great, but they have to take a backseat if the table deems that the narrative overules those mechanics.

It's been a long day, I'm more than a little stressed out and very, very tired. That may not make a lot of sense.

If not, throw some questions/observations my way and I'll see if I can explain this mess going around in my head a little better.

[EldritchFire]

Quick update from tonight's game:

I paid careful attention to the doom pool and there weren't as many plot points being thrown around.

Had an adversary leave the conflict with just succeeding on a roll and using an effect die. It was on a reaction, and I narrated as them trying to fly away. I added a d10 from the doom pool, and spent a d8 after winning the roll to keep a second effect die, and my players were like, "ok, she's out. Who's left?"

I was more stingy on how many extra targets for area attack.

And splitting the party was pretty fun! Hulk tried to do a jumping attack against Yellow Jacket, but I succeeded on the defense roll, and used a d6 from the doom pool to keep my d8 effect as a complication: halfway to Canada d8! Next up, Pym grew to giant size and caught one of the flyers in his hands like a firefly! Again, a d8 complication that Colossus eventually overcame.

I'm really liking the separation-as-complication thing, and it gives my players choices: stay where they are, or overcome the complication to regroup!

-EF

[Supplanter]

Split/Rejoin the Party is full of juice!

It occurred to me the other day that it even works as a mechanical response to *Snikt Bubbery*, for Watchers who allow that sort of thing. You can also use to help amp up ambushes, such as the Mutate Mob in the Savage Land. It's a thing to do in re that potential flood from the damn rupture in the other thread. It's the flathead screwdriver with duct-tape on the blade of MHRP Watcher-ing.


Jim

[babel2uk]

And splitting the party was pretty fun! Hulk tried to do a jumping attack against Yellow Jacket, but I succeeded on the defense roll, and used a d6 from the doom pool to keep my d8 effect as a complication: halfway to Canada d8! Next up, Pym grew to giant size and caught one of the flyers in his hands like a firefly! Again, a d8 complication that Colossus eventually overcame.

Isn't that just using a doom die to use an effect on a reaction, rather than using the Doom Pool 'Split the Party' mechanic?

[EldritchFire]

And splitting the party was pretty fun! Hulk tried to do a jumping attack against Yellow Jacket, but I succeeded on the defense roll, and used a d6 from the doom pool to keep my d8 effect as a complication: halfway to Canada d8! Next up, Pym grew to giant size and caught one of the flyers in his hands like a firefly! Again, a d8 complication that Colossus eventually overcame.

Isn't that just using a doom die to use an effect on a reaction, rather than using the Doom Pool 'Split the Party' mechanic?

Exactly! I was having problems with splitting the party "arbitrarily" using the existing mechanics I'd soending a doom die because there was no mechanical enforcement besides, "I paid a d10 doom die, you can't do that!" So I tried the complication route instead and my players took to it like bees to flowers!

-EF