Gauging power levels

[Doc_Nova]

Semi-separately and IMHO, some Watchers on the board sound like they feel practically obligated to build the DP up to 2D12, like if that doesn't happen they've failed somehow, and we'll all make fun of them here. I don't think that's true at all. And by the rules, 2D12 isn't actually supposed to get you much, as a Watcher. It just lets you end a scene whose trajectory is so obvious that it's not worth anyone's time to finish playing it out. It's not supposed to be a hose-the-PCs mechanic. It doesn't mean you can declare the heroes captured unless they were already well on the way to defeat. It's not a Get Out of Jail Free card for your villain. (Ironically, escapes should probably be way cheaper than 2D12. Imagine what Lockheed's SFX looks like if you flip it to work for a Watcher character.) Me, if a scene is dragging, I'm happy to let the Watcher end it for free!

I agree with the base concept of this, and support the notion that it shouldn't be viewed as a Watcher accolade or anything, but I do, somewhat, disagree on the application of 2D12 scene ending uses. Using the mini-Event Breakout as an example, the 2D12 scene closer is intended to be used to bring an ambush scene to a PC-capturing close.

I would instead posit that the 2D12 scene ender is meant to end a scene not just in an obvious direction because the scene was carrying on too long, but an ending that sets up the drama and excitement for the next scene.

As any experienced gamer will tell you, capturing most PCs, as a group, is an exercise in tedium and frustration. Capture is equal to failure in most player's eyes and they fight it with every bone in their body. Now, granted, some story-driven players may look past it, but I do not think that is the mindset of most gamers. Rather than beat the snot out of players, rack up the stress and/or trauma, and spend all their PP trying to avoid what is an incredibly common comic book story-telling device, the system gives the Watcher an ideal means of executing the same (with no typical form of "saving throw") while rewarding the players for it: 2D12 scene ender with all effected characters gaining 2 XP.

And let's be honest here, most character-captures in the comic books (as they should be in a comic book-emulation RPG) are not "hosing the players". In fact, they usually set the villain up for defeat as they get the heroes in to the vulnerable portions of a villains base, or trigger the bad guy's overconfidence and cause them to start monologuing.

Granted, the 2D12 scene ender should not be used to yank victory away from the players, but it is an excellent tool to facilitate captures and other similar difficult-to-execute moments.

Of course, that is just my two cents on the matter and is to be taken, or left, as desired.

[Dunlaing]

It's not just "you get 2xp" and are captured, it's "you get 2xp and no trauma" and are captured. After all, you'd probably be stressing the heroes out in order to capture them if not for the 2d12 thing.

[Supplanter]

Doc & Bill: You raise a couple good points. I've thought of the "no trauma" thing & it's a definite benefit. And Breakout does indeed have 2D12 as prelude to a capture in the Mutates encounter. (I think that's actually where the trouble starts! ) In defense of the Mutates thing specifically, Breakout goes about one aspect of it the right way: it really stacks the deck against the PCs in the scene. Between the mob and the named mutates the Watcher has available, she can put a lot of play-groups in a "you're clearly losing" situation before pulling the trigger. But I admit that, as an example, it opens space for a completely different interpretation of what it's okay to do with 2D12 vice what the OM itself says.

I think it's bad for play to take too much license from Breakout though. Because I think what's worse than playing 2D12 in a lot of cases is building up to it. It's usually a very obvious process. Here's what happens if you're the Watcher and I see you doing that: I shut myself down somewhat. I disengage emotionally from the scene. Because, srsly, if you don't care about this scene right here, why should I? For a player in that situation to maintain the same level of commitment and creativity would be a waste of time. This scene, the impersonal you is telling me by your actions, is just a means to some end of yours. So fine, let's get to that, I guess.

This means 2D12 can become almost a self-licking ice-cream cone. You can play it to end a scene that drags, and you can make a scene drag by working to play it.


Jim

[Spatula]

Because I think what's worse than playing 2D12 in a lot of cases is building up to it. It's usually a very obvious process. Here's what happens if you're the Watcher and I see you doing that: I shut myself down somewhat. I disengage emotionally from the scene. Because, srsly, if you don't care about this scene right here, why should I? For a player in that situation to maintain the same level of commitment and creativity would be a waste of time.

Well... It's not like there aren't legit reasons for wanting D12s in the doom pool, aside from the 2D12 bomb. Seeing as you need dice of a certain size to accomplish certain tasks.

Aside from that, getting 2D12 generally means you aren't spending many doom dice on boosting the villains - the Watcher needs to keep the pool small to step up the smallest dice. So the players are earning PP and are free to spend them unopposed. That right there is going to speed things up - the scene might end on its own before the Watcher even gets to 2D12.

[Doc Hydrogen]

Great post Doc Nova. I wish there was an upvote or xp gauge for posts / posters.

[Doc_Nova]

Great post Doc Nova. I wish there was an upvote or xp gauge for posts / posters.

Thanks Doc Hydrogen! I agree, an XP/post vote mechanism would be handy.

[Dunlaing]

I think it's bad for play to take too much license from Breakout though. Because I think what's worse than playing 2D12 in a lot of cases is building up to it. It's usually a very obvious process. Here's what happens if you're the Watcher and I see you doing that: I shut myself down somewhat. I disengage emotionally from the scene. Because, srsly, if you don't care about this scene right here, why should I? For a player in that situation to maintain the same level of commitment and creativity would be a waste of time. This scene, the impersonal you is telling me by your actions, is just a means to some end of yours. So fine, let's get to that, I guess.

This means 2D12 can become almost a self-licking ice-cream cone. You can play it to end a scene that drags, and you can make a scene drag by working to play it.

I can see that, certainly. But I know I've been in Doom Pool hoarding mode before without heading for a 2d12 End the Scene. Or in anticipation of the next scene being the one I want to get out of aas quickly as possible. Just because I'm growing the Doom Pool doesn't mean I don't care about this scene. Maybe I just am planning on the Rampaging Hulk coming out soon.

[Supplanter]

I can see that, certainly. But I know I've been in Doom Pool hoarding mode before without heading for a 2d12 End the Scene. Or in anticipation of the next scene being the one I want to get out of aas quickly as possible. Just because I'm growing the Doom Pool doesn't mean I don't care about this scene. Maybe I just am planning on the Rampaging Hulk coming out soon.

I've engaged in doom-pool hoarding across scenes too, as Watcher. But as you know, our mentor in these things opposes the practice pretty strongly, and I think his reasoning is pretty sound, so I feel somewhat chastened about it.

That said, decisions a Watcher makes to build up the doom pool in a general way aren't necessarily the ones that build up the doom pool to 2D12. "I need 4-6 dice of various sizes so I can cover spends from D6-D10" and "I need two dice that are D12s, period" require different decisions along the way. e.g. if I'm a Watcher determined to get to 2D12, I'm going to be actively reluctant to add D6s to the pool, since I can only ever step up my lowest die, and a D6 is three steps from a D12. I may not even want to take on new D8s. And if I don't have any villains with D12 traits but I'm following a build-up rather than build-out strategy, that can be a clue.

If I just want a nice spread of sizes, I'll buy more new dice. If I get one D12 in the doom pool, I'll be willing to spend it rather than hoard it. These are all tells.


Jim

[Johnny Awesome]

Doom Pool management can be tough.

What I tend to do now is Grandstand right away with a major villain to get a D10 into the DP. Then I usually buy every Opportunity I can and always buy multiple 1s as larger dice.

Whenever I use a D8 or D10 from the DP to add to a villain's dice pool I always give the player a PP so that I can keep the die in the DP.

I don't have a problem with having a larger Doom Pool in Action Scenes. My ideal Pool is 2D12, 2D10, 2D8, 2D6. Maximum flexibility.

There's nothing in the rules that say that I HAVE to use the best dice in my roll for my total.

If I want heroes to Recover easier in Transition Scenes and the DP is a little big I can always use the LOWEST dice that I roll to oppose their recovery.

[Darth Mauno]

Keep us informed on how it goes; it is always enlightening and entertaining to hear how sessions play out for different groups.

So, now I've run the session and despite all the great advice I got here, my inexperience with the system led to a bit embarrassing results - in the end, I decided to use Sandman supported by a handful of generic thugs as the bank robbers, but the scene was cut rather short when Sub-Mariner managed to take poor Sandy out with a single blow. Nevertheless, we had a fun session, so no big deal in the end. For more detailed description, see my new gaming blog: http://mygamingtable.wordpress.com/2012 ... el-heroic/