A couple of Plot Point-related questions

[siebharinn]

When I'm watchering, I disallow spending in a way that results in the default d4. So if you roll three dice, you can't spend a plot point to use all three in the total, then take a d4 effect. But if one of those three dice results in an opportunity, then the d4 effect kicks in.

I would allow the edge cases, like when you use the SFX (I am totally drawing a blank on the name) where you remove the highest rolled die and then use the next three for the total. If you had four dice in your pool, then using the default d4 is ok.

[pksullivan]

Why do you veto that particular behavior, siebharinn? I know some people would rather succeed with small success than whiff completely. Or maybe they're trying to put down a villain and really want to connect so they can bump that D12 up by one. It doesn't matter how hard they hit as long as they hit in that scenario.

[Riklurt]

Interesting point, re: not picking the best results from the doom pool. A way to make that useful is, I suppose, for the Watcher to simply say "This action is supposed to be easy, so I won't use the best die for the total" prior to the roll. That way you can simulate some easier die rolls without feeling as much like you're cheating.

I think it's a good idea for actions that might still fail, but that are supposed to be easier than other actions. It would rarely apply, but I can see some occasions where it might suit the situation.

[Legate]

Exactly.

Sometimes something would just be COOL if you let it happen, so you give it every chance to come about.

[siebharinn]

Why do you veto that particular behavior, siebharinn? I know some people would rather succeed with small success than whiff completely. Or maybe they're trying to put down a villain and really want to connect so they can bump that D12 up by one. It doesn't matter how hard they hit as long as they hit in that scenario.

Well, there are several ways to look at that. Just because players would like to succeed, sometimes fate (as represented by the dice) has other plans. It's ok to fail. It's ok to not bump that d12 up by one. The possibility of failure is what gives dramatic tension.

But the more compelling answer for me, is that it bypasses the essential mechanic of using dice for value *and* effect. MHRP is elegant in how you make decisions of not only which dice you're going to put into the pool, but how you use them when they are rolled. A default effect die messes with that balancing act of trying to decide not only how well to do something, but with how much effect. I've frequently seen players just burn all of their plot points to pull in all of their dice into the total, and then take a stepped up d4 for effect. To me, that seems against the spirit of what the default is for. My feeling is that you have to use what you brought to the action, and if you don't have enough oomph to get the job done, then you don't get it done.

I'd like to try a session that dumps the default d4 altogether. If you don't have an effect die to use, then no effect happens, even if you succeeded in the roll. That's clearly not what the rules state, so it would need to be a throw-away session, but I think it would be worth trying.

[TrentFarrell]

Why do you veto that particular behavior, siebharinn? I know some people would rather succeed with small success than whiff completely. Or maybe they're trying to put down a villain and really want to connect so they can bump that D12 up by one. It doesn't matter how hard they hit as long as they hit in that scenario.

Well, there are several ways to look at that. Just because players would like to succeed, sometimes fate (as represented by the dice) has other plans. It's ok to fail. It's ok to not bump that d12 up by one. The possibility of failure is what gives dramatic tension.

But the more compelling answer for me, is that it bypasses the essential mechanic of using dice for value *and* effect. MHRP is elegant in how you make decisions of not only which dice you're going to put into the pool, but how you use them when they are rolled. A default effect die messes with that balancing act of trying to decide not only how well to do something, but with how much effect. I've frequently seen players just burn all of their plot points to pull in all of their dice into the total, and then take a stepped up d4 for effect. To me, that seems against the spirit of what the default is for. My feeling is that you have to use what you brought to the action, and if you don't have enough oomph to get the job done, then you don't get it done.

I'd like to try a session that dumps the default d4 altogether. If you don't have an effect die to use, then no effect happens, even if you succeeded in the roll. That's clearly not what the rules state, so it would need to be a throw-away session, but I think it would be worth trying.

Alternately, you could always house-rule that if you defaulted to a d4, you're STUCK with that d4, and it cannot be stepped up. That would solve the default-but-step-it-up issue. You could also opt not to purchase the opportunities of a player who makes a habit of this, which would restrict the number of Plot Points they'd be able to build up.

Personally, I don't feel that it is an issue. Plot points are supposed to break the standard mechanics of the game. The standard mechanics of a 2 die total with 1 effect die. They add another element to the elegance of the system: Resource Management.

If they have the absurd amount of points to spend, I don't see the problem with letting them burn through them all in a single, go-for-broke action. After all, they've been holding themselves back in order to save them up, and they won't have them available afterward, for boosting recovery rolls or getting resources in the next Transition Scene, or for the rest of the Action Scene, assuming that this action doesn't end the Action Scene.

[General_Tojo]

A d4 effect is so risky, so easily stepped away, I really don't see the problem with a player wanting to do this. If they want it that badly, let them feel like they gave it their all.

[Johnny Awesome]

As a Watcher my simple rule on giving out PP is this:

If a player has at least 2 PP I only buy multiple opportunities, not singles. Otherwise, I buy opportunities.

[General_Tojo]

By the way, I should note that as a house-rule, per Cam's comments, in the game I participate in that you can't spend down with Plot Points to d4 effect when using Area Attack.

[siebharinn]

By the way, I should note that as a house-rule, per Cam's comments, in the game I participate in that you can't spend down with Plot Points to d4 effect when using Area Attack.

and

A d4 effect is so risky, so easily stepped away, I really don't see the problem with a player wanting to do this. If they want it that badly, let them feel like they gave it their all.

Why the special treatment for Area Attack? Why not let the players feel like they gave it their all, against more than one opponent?