I Scare Myself: Another Potential Doom Pool Exploit

[Supplanter]

Fact: Watcher characters never roll against each other or the doom pool. They apply an effect die directly in such cases.

The rules are a little vague on the extent to which a Watcher character builds a dice pool before doing this. This is a little important. For instance: say I have a minor villain with a lot of traits at D6 and D8, but no D10s. But, this minor villain also has the Focus SFX. The way I played this last night was that, when grandstanding or doing a support action, of course such a minor villain can create a D10 effect die. Because the villain has Focus, darnit!

So I'm building at least an implicit dice pool for a Watcher character who's just applying an effect die directly. Here's the potential exploit:

If I'm "really" building a dice pool for a Watcher character whenever I'm applying an effect die directly, then I'm including a distinction in the dice pool. And theoretically I could include a D4 distinction in that die pool. Which would, on one interpretation, itself earn a doom die/step.

So if I were grandstanding*, I could theoretically apply my villain's effect die to the doom pool, and also toss in an extra D6 doom die I earned from "using" my D4 distinction. If the villain were doing a support action for another villain, I could also add a free D6 doom die to the pool from "using" my D4 distinction.

Some of you people are now thinking that this is the best idea ever. I say it cannot work that way, because:

1. The rules are silent on this, and it's obviously a pretty big deal if true, so they woulda/shoulda said something if this were how it works.
2. The reason D4s earn you PPs/doom dice is they're more likely to generate opportunities than D8s are. If you don't roll your dice, you're not incurring any opportunity risk at all, and therefore aren't earning the doom die. Therefore you don't get it.

This reasoning strikes me as ironclad, but also similar to the objections to the other horrible idea people really liked recently.

So I guess my request for official clarification from the Powers That Be is, to what extent, when applying a Watcher character's effect die from a non-rolled action, should we consider the Watcher character to have built a dice pool?


Jim

* Leave aside objections that sometimes The Narrative means a hero totally can react to a villain's attempt to grandstanding. The book explicitly makes it clear that at least sometimes, Watcher characters will act without opposition. Those are the cases I'm considering here.

[Doc Hydrogen]

Watcher characters never roll against the doom pool, therefore they don't build a dice pool for a roll they won't be making. Which is why the OM says you simply apply a die directly. OM15, OM53, OM54.

[Supplanter]

Watcher characters never roll against the doom pool, therefore they don't build a dice pool for a roll they won't be making. Which is why the OM says you simply apply a die directly.

But does this mean, then, that Watcher characters can't take advantage of SFX like Focus that presume the existence of a dice pool when doing a direct effect-die application? I'm willing to believe that, though it means a minor apology to last night's play-group.


Jim

[Doc Hydrogen]

"As the Watcher, your characters don't roll against the doom pool. If you want to have one Watcher character aid another, just take a die from an appropriate helping trait and add it to the supported character's next dice pool," OM53.

They don't build a pool for this, they're not applying an effect die, they're directly applying a die from a trait.

[Supplanter]

"As the Watcher, your characters don't roll against the doom pool. If you want to have one Watcher character aid another, just take a die from an appropriate helping trait and add it to the supported character's next dice pool," OM53.

That is indeed the text. So you're saying that means something like Focus isn't applicable to a helping-type roll, correct? Because there's no die-pool containing multiple dice to apply Focus too.


Jim

[Doc Hydrogen]

I would say no because the text of focus reads, "If a pool includes..." To me, no dice pool, no Focus.

[Supplanter]

I would say no because the text of focus reads, "If a pool includes..." To me, no dice pool, no Focus.

That interpretation strikes me as completely reasonable! Now, to see how Cam weighs in . . .


Jim

[Cam]

Nope. You don't build a die pool, you don't use SFX like that, you just apply a die.

Any Watcher who tried this at my table would get The Look.

Cheers,
Cam

[Supplanter]

Nope. You don't build a die pool, you don't use SFX like that, you just apply a die.

Any Watcher who tried this at my table would get The Look.

Awesome! It's consistent and avoids the problem.

But are there any dice-manipulating SFX that apply to Watcher-character direct applications of effect dice? Frex, can a villain with Constructs take +1 step on an asset created by not-rolling against the doom pool?


JIm

[Dunlaing]

To further the "it's not a die pool, it's an appropriate trait" line of reasoning, you really should be using an appropriate trait.

So if a Watcher character has Team d10 and Telekinesis d6, and she's providing support to another character on her team via Telekinesis, then she gives the d6 die, not the d10. Even though a player character in that same instance could theoretically be giving the d10 on that action.