Can you choose which stress to inflict?

[Cam]

I would be fair on Johnny's player and let him pull his punches, so to speak.

Cheers,
Cam

[MidnightBlue]

Not trying to be a pest...I really am curious:

Why wouldn't you state your full intent before the roll?

I think that, like a lot of narrative systems, MHRP plays most richly if you don't over-specify prior to the roll. If you over-specify, you risk closing off narrative options too early. You also risk wasting everybody's time. Not trying to nail everything down ahead of time means that the serendipity of the die roll itself can become an inspirational element. My other passion is theatrical improv, so I'm pretty dedicated to the idea that too much premeditation interferes with creativity.

And remember, to the extent that it's meaningful to talk about an amount of narrative in a game session, it's not important whether it comes before or after the dice roll. What matters is that we all care about the narrative elements we're producing as we produce them, and that those elements meaningfully shape the course of play. Narrative elements we introduce after rolling the dice - including elements of intent - can often do that just as well as elements we introduce before rolling the dice, and sometimes better.

I wonder if, and I mean no disrespect here, part of our disconnect is that, as you say, this kind of game is still pretty new to you. You often discuss "mechanics" and "narrative" like they're almost opposed concepts. But MHRP's family tree is populated by ancestors that rejected that opposition. (The very first name in the "Thanks" section of the Basic-Game credits is Vincent Baker, IIRC. And Fate RPG injected a lot of genetic material into Cortex Plus too. Er, that didn't come out right.) There have been a lot of pixels spilled about how much is worth specifying in advance of a die-roll vs. after a die-roll if you prize narrative as a value in RPGs, and I almost just threw the term "fortune in the middle" into this post and left it at that. But then I realized it would make me one of those people.


Jim

Ha! No offense taken of course...but I'm not exactly new to this kind of gaming.




I understand all of the above. No problems there.

But my basic question is still open...

How are you building a dice pool if you aren't stating what your intent is?

That's the part I'm not following.

Can you give me an example?

[Thorguild]

I like narrating afterwards too. As an example:

I have flight, mental power, and force field. I'm attacked, and I put the dice together and roll.

Result: d4. I didn't do so hot. I narrate a weak response. I don't want to spend a PP to inflict. "When he attacks, I feel the hatred in his actions just as he swings. I throw up my field and barely ward off the blow to my face."

Result: d10. Great roll, I spend a PP to inflict. "Even before he balls his fist, I feel his aggression. I throw up my force field and he slams his fist into it full force. The impact ripples through his injured knuckles all the way up to his spine. I magnify those feelings with my mental push. He takes d10 emotional stress from the pain and surprise."

In the comics most characters use their powers with the facility of instinct. They fly to dodge; they shoot down objects to block. When they do something cool, it can be REALLY cool. That's why I like to make my big die effects more cool than the little ones.

I mean to use my flight, mental blast, and force field to win the confrontation. That's why I'm using them in the die pool. After I know how well I did those things it makes it easier to tell you how I did it.

My opinion.

Thorguild

[Supplanter]

That's pretty well put, Thorguild. It sounds like we might narrate more ahead of the roll than that, but the principle is the same.

I think you've helped me verbalize a key principle actually: Narrative is not intent, and intent is not narrative.


Jim

[igorbone]

Well, the MHR core book actually encourages you to narrate the action you are trying to accomplish but also narrate what happens in case you fail the roll. I found that open approach very hard at first, but I started to get a hang of it and I think it improved a lot when describing scenes and possibilities.

[Thorguild]

That's pretty well put, Thorguild. It sounds like we might narrate more ahead of the roll than that, but the principle is the same.

I think you've helped me verbalize a key principle actually: Narrative is not intent, and intent is not narrative.


Jim

Thank you, Jim.

Thorguild

[Supplanter]

Well, the MHR core book actually encourages you to narrate the action you are trying to accomplish but also narrate what happens in case you fail the roll. I found that open approach very hard at first, but I started to get a hang of it and I think it improved a lot when describing scenes and possibilities.

I frequently narrate at a level of detail like, "Magnitude's going to shrink down, fly into Hulk's eyeball and fire his bio-stingers directly down Hulk's optic nerve to stimulate his Amygdala in a way that tends to calm him down." IIRC, that might have been a Stunt, and it was also a way to get Psych Expert into a combat roll. That's actually another issue: for stunts to be cool, they call for a level of description above the ordinary. If ordinary descriptions are too elaborate, it doesn't leave much headroom.

"I somersault over my opponent and kick him in the back of the head" seems like a perfectly reasonable declaration of intent to me, in many normal circumstances, as does "I'm going to blast the entire Badder Mobile Platoon with my frickin' eyebeams."

An example of a level of intent-declaration that strikes me as pointless and dreary: describing a potential counter-reaction in advance of making a reaction roll. Because in many - maybe most - circumstances, that declaration would go to waste. Far better, IMHO, to see how the dice fall, and then have fun with the description of the counter-reaction once you know it's actually going to happen.

This last is the clearest example I can think of between "intent" and "narrative." An elaborate profession of my intent to do a thing, in advance, is not narrative. Narrative is what happens. An elaborate description of what I did, once I know that the dice say that I succeeded, is narrative. This thing occurs. It is part of the story. Therefore it's worth more of our time.


Jim

[Johnny Awesome]

I agree. We don't waste time at my table with "what if you fail" descriptions. It's also a waste of creative "juices" IMO.

[MidnightBlue]

I agree. We don't waste time at my table with "what if you fail" descriptions. It's also a waste of creative "juices" IMO.

I agree with that.

You do have to know how the dice fall to be able to narrate the outcome and result.

[Cam]

It should be fairly apparent from your declaration of intent what the outcome might be if you don't succeed. This is a factor of the telegraphing your moves approach we use in Smallville, and related to Apocalypse World's "to do it, do it" approach. Basically, you're going to do X, so whatever reaction Y is, X is going to be narrated as having been attempted, and maybe even mostly achieved, but with conditions attached for not working. And those conditions are largely decided when effects are resolved.

Cheers,
Cam