Ok, so about Mind Control...

[vitruvian]

By the wording in the book, I think that if the complication is stepped up past d12 the hero doesn't have much of a choice. There is no "stand still doing nothing" option. Especially if you take a look at the D12 level description.

I don't see how that isn't an option, since having a Complication stepped up past D12 is explicitly just like being stressed out, and when you're stressed out, you can't act but can still react just fine (barring a Conscious Activation Limit on some of your dice). With Mind Control, there's the wrinkle that the Complication die doesn't impact you if you follow the commands, so when in compliance you're not 'stressed out', but otherwise...

[vitruvian]

So if the suspension of disbelief or any other drama-driven tools aren't being used in your game session just go with it and remember this: If you're ALL having fun then there's nothing wrong.

But if suspension of disbelief isn't being used, the disbelief is falling all over you and your players, isn't it?

[salsa]

But if suspension of disbelief isn't being used, the disbelief is falling all over you and your players, isn't it?

What I meant is that sometimes people just try to look at every possible rule like if they were the Book of God's Rules. If it says it works this way then it should be exactly like this in real life or vice-versa. And well... it isn't. Most of the time we treat everything that happens on an adventure like either a game or a movie. Where there are blockbuster explosions and people survive free falling and bullet wounds as if they were nuisances.

By the wording in the book, I think that if the complication is stepped up past d12 the hero doesn't have much of a choice. There is no "stand still doing nothing" option. Especially if you take a look at the D12 level description.

I don't see how that isn't an option, since having a Complication stepped up past D12 is explicitly just like being stressed out, and when you're stressed out, you can't act but can still react just fine (barring a Conscious Activation Limit on some of your dice). With Mind Control, there's the wrinkle that the Complication die doesn't impact you if you follow the commands, so when in compliance you're not 'stressed out', but otherwise...

Resisting at this point won't help you at all, you're "complicated out" you won't act. So the Watcher might as well give you back control of your hero by the end of the scene (when the villain flees or the other heroes defeat him).

You're not actually "reacting" because there's nothing else to react to. You've already reached the stressed out track and the result is full-on dominance until someone else makes a recovery action on you or if you have some sort of SFX that brings you back to complication d12 but not stressed out.

And when I said "stand still doing nothing" it's because normally you would do that (or at least move in some manner) to represent your struggle, THAT is the recovery check (which does cost you an action) mentioned in page OM59. If you are stressed out you can't recover anymore, unless you have a SFX for that.

[vitruvian]

Resisting at this point won't help you at all, you're "complicated out" you won't act. So the Watcher might as well give you back control of your hero by the end of the scene (when the villain flees or the other heroes defeat him).

You're not actually "reacting" because there's nothing else to react to. You've already reached the stressed out track and the result is full-on dominance until someone else makes a recovery action on you or if you have some sort of SFX that brings you back to complication d12 but not stressed out.

And when I said "stand still doing nothing" it's because normally you would do that (or at least move in some manner) to represent your struggle, THAT is the recovery check (which does cost you an action) mentioned in page OM59. If you are stressed out you can't recover anymore, unless you have a SFX for that.

I'm not talking about a Recovery Action, I'm talking about Reactions in general. You won't act, but you can still React to anything else that happens - somebody trying to hit you, whatever. Just as you can do when Stressed Out. Sure, you have an extra D12 working against you, but by the rules, a Stressed Out Spider-Man can still dodge attacks, and some Reactions even involve stuff that would look pretty proactive in a comics panel.

[Cam]

Usually, you're going to define what being stressed out actually means in the narrative before you decide on how the reaction takes place. If Spider-Man is stressed out with physical stress, he's not going to be bouncing around all over the place dodging attacks. He's flat on his back with little birds tweeting around his head.

Cheers,
Cam

[vitruvian]

Usually, you're going to define what being stressed out actually means in the narrative before you decide on how the reaction takes place. If Spider-Man is stressed out with physical stress, he's not going to be bouncing around all over the place dodging attacks. He's flat on his back with little birds tweeting around his head.

Cheers,
Cam

Then is the line in the book about still being able to roll Reactions when Stressed Out accurate, or soon to be errata? Color me confused.

[Cam]

You can roll reactions, but what those constitute or represent is going to entirely depend on the situation.

Unconscious Spider-Man does not use Superhuman Reflexes in his reaction. Use common sense before you pick up the dice.

Cheers,
Cam

[MidnightBlue]

Then is the line in the book about still being able to roll Reactions when Stressed Out accurate, or soon to be errata? Color me confused.

Remember, when your character is stressed out, you can narrate how that stress out plays out.

For example, if my Spider-Man gets physically stressed out, maybe he's unconscious and then he isn't likely going to be dodging anything.

But if he's emotionally stressed out, maybe I say that Spidey is so distraught (the thought that Aunt May might be in trouble perhaps) that he tries to escape the scene. In this case he could make reactions, but not actions.

Anyway, that's how it makes sense to me.

[vitruvian]

Then is the line in the book about still being able to roll Reactions when Stressed Out accurate, or soon to be errata? Color me confused.

Remember, when your character is stressed out, you can narrate how that stress out plays out.

For example, if my Spider-Man gets physically stressed out, maybe he's unconscious and then he isn't likely going to be dodging anything.

But if he's emotionally stressed out, maybe I say that Spidey is so distraught (the thought that Aunt May might be in trouble perhaps) that he tries to escape the scene. In this case he could make reactions, but not actions.

Anyway, that's how it makes sense to me.

But does being physically stressed out necessarily mean being knocked unconscious, or could it be narrated differently, allowing physical Reactions, including things like Reflexes? If it's generally assumed to mean being knocked out, on the other hand, then the text in the book about still being able to roll Reactions seems kind of odd; it seems like it should be caveated as only being able to roll 'passive' dice like Durability or Resistance in from your Power Sets, no Specialties, and so on. Besides, even if Spidey continues to roll his D10 Superhuman Reflexes into his Reactions, he's still 'on the ropes', as he's considerably handicapped by that D12 Stress die hanging out there for every attacker to use.

And going back to Mind Control, if you're Complicated Out by the Mind Control Complication, certainly you won't be able to initiate any actions (that are contrary to the mind control commands or mind controller's wishes), but it seems like you should still be able to roll Reactions against attacks and so on - at least if you haven't been commanded not to defend yourself, and really by the RAW even then, although you'd have to deal with the D12 Complication die.

[clackey]

Sorry, guys. I still don't get it.

Say I'm Emma Frost and I tell a group of 5 SHIELD agents to fight the Avengers.

If they're D8 experts and she inflicts D6 on 3, D8 on 1, and D10 on another.

So what happens?

Can they still attack her but with at D6 and D8 complications on them? And the one guy who got the D10 is her slave?

Am I getting that right?