Having 2 PowerSets means more dice?

[SmilingCoyote]

Having 2 power sets means more dice?

For example Wolverine has 2 power sets. Which means when he makes an attack, he can add 2 dice (enhanced strength and claws) without using SFX or PP?

That means that a beast man who has Enhanced Strength and Claws (normal) in a Beastual Mutation Powerset would have to use SFX like multitasking to use 2 powers?

Regards.

[Supplanter]

Having 2 power sets means more dice?

For example Wolverine has 2 power sets. Which means when he makes an attack, he can add 2 dice (enhanced strength and claws) without using SFX or PP?

That means that a beast man who has Enhanced Strength and Claws (normal) in a Beastual Mutation Powerset would have to use SFX like multitasking to use 2 powers?

Regards.

Right. If you look at the one-set heroes in the Basic Game, they pretty much all have either Versatile or Multipower to get that second die. Some people have house-ruled "two free power traits from any set instead of one free power trait from each." A few have house-ruled "one free trait ONLY, from any set, instead of one free power trait from EACH." But those last people are crazy. Crazy!

If you stick to RAW, which works perfectly well, just make sure to give the one-set heroes Multipower or Versatile. (I prefer to play heroes with Versatile myself.)


Jim

[Rick Danger]

I guess it depends on the powersets, since some are more offensive and others more defensive, meaning you act with one and react with the other.

[MidnightBlue]

I guess it depends on the powersets, since some are more offensive and others more defensive, meaning you act with one and react with the other.

True...you always need to be able to come up with a creative narrative if you want to incorporate dice.

Just because you have two power sets and the other guy only has one doesn't mean you will be throwing more dice on a regular basis...unless you can work the narrative to your benefit.

Spider-Man can do a LOT of things with his Web-Slinging and the comics support that. He uses them defensively (swinging out of the way, webbing up weapons, forming shield constructs, etc.) and offensively (web projectiles, webbing up foes, pulling terrain on targets, etc.).

But anytime Spidey's player wants to use both power sets, he has to be able to narrate HOW he's doing so. That's a big part of the fun in my eyes.

I've seen a lot of call that you need Multipower, Versatile or a house rule to make single power set characters on an equal footing with dual (or more) power set characters. Personally, I think the roleplay will even things out at my table and the rest isn't necessary to having a balanced game.

Just my opinion.

[Mouse]

Every system has weird things that happen for no other reason than the game system. The one set/ two set divide is MHR's weird thing.

Like if you have two characters. They both have d8 in every power they've got. They both have strength and claws. Adam has one power set (perhaps based on his mutant physiology) and Betty has two (maybe one based on mutant powers and the other on spiffy equipment). For no other reason than that she has two power sets, Betty has better dice. If Adam wants both his powers to matter, he needs Multi-Power and to downgrade his d8s to d6s.

Splitting exactly the same powers between two power sets is more advantageous in terms of dice you can bring to bear (unless you've got Mutually Exclusive, of course). SFX can of course bring you away from this baseline, but it is the baseline.

[chaosnet]

The difference though is that (on average D8 is 4.5 or 5), Adam will get a... 10 Total, with a D8 Effect and Betty will get a...10 Total, with a D8 Effect.

The constraint (without adding PPs) is that the total and effect die are static system constructs and thus there is no advantage from having +1 D8 die.

[Supplanter]

The difference though is that (on average D8 is 4.5 or 5), Adam will get a... 10 Total, with a D8 Effect and Betty will get a...10 Total, with a D8 Effect.

The constraint (without adding PPs) is that the total and effect die are static system constructs and thus there is no advantage from having +1 D8 die.

I don't think this is right, but it's a little unclear which population of dice you are calculating across here. If we hold Affiliation/Distinction/Specialty values constant across Adam and Betty - for argument's sake, a D8 for each - then Adam's rolling 4D8 (one power) and Betty's rolling 5D8 (two powers). Troll's down right now and I don't know the scripting at anydice.com as well, but I guarantee you Betty comes out ahead there in terms of Total. Because "Best two of five dice" will always be higher than "Best two of four dice" for constant face sizes.


Jim

[Supplanter]

But anytime Spidey's player wants to use both power sets, he has to be able to narrate HOW he's doing so. That's a big part of the fun in my eyes.

You get that anyway, though, if you adopt a variant of "two traits from any set." (My latest thought, guided by Cam's cavils, is to make this work like Multipower by default: anyone who wants to take two traits in a single roll steps both down regardless if they're from one set or two.) You still narrate what you're doing, and the narration is still fun.

I've seen a lot of call that you need Multipower, Versatile or a house rule to make single power set characters on an equal footing with dual (or more) power set characters. Personally, I think the roleplay will even things out at my table and the rest isn't necessary to having a balanced game.

Perhaps it will. I'm going by:

* two different playtest sessions with the alpha rules, where people who played one-set heroes felt nerfed - they experienced it as a problem and we reported it as such
* subsequent to that, all the final datafiles of one-set heroes include provisions to get them as many dice as two-set heroes - suggesting that somebody on the production side agreed it was a problem
* playing the game a bunch since it came out, and seeing people play both one-set and two-set heroes, and seeing multpower/versatile work as designed
* the structural issue that without system equalizers, yes - sometimes the two-set hero won't get her second free die, but sometimes she will, but the one-set hero will never get her second free die

This is not a guarantee of how things will go for your group when you get to play the game. But it's possible you can leverage others' experience here to good effect.


Jim

[Mouse]

The difference though is that (on average D8 is 4.5 or 5), Adam will get a... 10 Total, with a D8 Effect and Betty will get a...10 Total, with a D8 Effect.

The constraint (without adding PPs) is that the total and effect die are static system constructs and thus there is no advantage from having +1 D8 die.

4 versus 5 dice has two advantages:

1. Since the rolled results will be random (not 4.375, which is the expected outcome of a d8 when 1s are dropped) more dice increase the chance of producing higher totals.

2. 5 dice are less likely to be left with 2 or fewer dice (and thus the default d4 effect die and perhaps only a single die for calculating your total).

In neither case is the difference huge, but it's there. Someone with a 5d8 pool will on average outperform someone with a 4d8 pool. Both in terms of average total and in the number of times the 5d pool gets to keep a d8 effect die rather than defaulting.

[chaosnet]

* subsequent to that, all the final datafiles of one-set heroes include provisions to get them as many dice as two-set heroes - suggesting that somebody on the production side agreed it was a problem.

I think this is perhaps the strongest point in the argument. If each single-set datafile has to include Mutli or Versi, then there is clearly something...odd. If each published datafile has single sets with Multi or Versi, then there definitely is an issue.

I go by the caveat that you have a single powerset unless it makes sense for you to have two. In this case, Iron Man, as published would have had a single power set as I don't see why Armor and Weapons Platform are exclusive of each other except to give him an extra die in his pool. Add to that his Fly is in the Weapons Platform (GRRR!) and it seems a bit...odd.

I had one of my players (a Radiation Controller type) originally written up as two powersets, but both had to do with Radiation and he was re-written as a single powerset as it made the most sense. I have a villain, Blazefrost, that has Fire and Ice Control, but its a single powerset (Fire and Ice Control!), not Powerset 1 Fire Control and Powerset 2 Ice Control. Written the second way, he could add D10 Fire Blast and D10 Ice Blast into his pool which kindve overpowers him from his concept that I had in my minds eye.

Lastly, the character has to make sense. Each datafile doesnt need to have parity with other datafiles, some toons are more powerful than others. So if it makes sense to have 1 or 2, then take 1 or 2.