Has anyone devised a system for character building?

[Arcane Springboard]

The key to remember is that characters are not balanced in character generation. They're balanced in game play.

As mentioned above, you have limits on what you can add to your dice pool:

One die per power set.
One specialty.

You can of course use PPs...and that's where the second balancing act comes in.

If you're rolling mostly high dice like d10s and d12s, you're not going to be rolling as many opportunities as say, Black Panther and his wall of d8s. This means you're not getting as many plot points. This means that you're not getting to spend as many PPs on adding a third die to your result, or adding a second effect die, or being able to actually use your Invulnerability SFX.

So if you're playing Thor or Hulk or the Thing, you'll be depending a lot more on using your Distinctions for d4+PP, or activating your own limits, something that 'weaker' characters don't have to do as much.

[sak0232]

Hi all,

As a d8 mathematician (and perhaps a d6 Scientist), I'm interested in whether an system was organically produced, as Cam and the others created the files.
Could a cost system be derived from the relative scarcity of dice rankings, i.e. a "dice market force," after looking at the patterns of dice in the datafiles...

Just a thought...

Steve-0

[Shingen]

The OP should just let people play who they want, and let it work out in play. It isn't until you play that it makes sense and you can see how balance need not be the bear it is in other games. You have to let go of the impulse to be consistently worried about balance and points and fairness - it all works in play.

[RoyMBar]

And what if one of the players wants 2 power sets with 6 powers each all at d12 with all d10 specialties, 3 distinctions that are basically applicable in any situation, almost all of the SFX from the book, and limits that are easy to gain PP from?

I mean, that character could roll a distinction every round at d4 to gain PP and be shutting down powers left and right to gain PP and still be completely dominating in any type (Physical, Mental or Emotional) combat.

Every dice pool being d10(Team)+d4(Distinction)+d12(Power Set 1)+d12(Power Set 2)+d10(Specialty) gaining PP every action would dominate. Spending PP to start applying more than 1 d12 from each Power Set would make it even more off the chart. And then once they start using their extra d12 to create Assets and apply Complications, the dice pool becomes unbeatable.

I mean, theoretically, how this discussion has gone, that is a perfectly reasonable character.

"Just apply whatever powers at whatever d rating you think is appropriate. Don't sweat the small stuff, it'll all balance out in play."

And then, someone else in the party wants to play Shadowcat or Armor.

I don't see how, no matter how much the system itself levels out character power levels, those two characters' power levels level out to be roughly equal.

I mean, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that a handful of d12's is going to beat a handful of d8's and d10's every time, if you are smart about how you generate PP, stunts, assets and complications.

Now that isn't the problem that brought about me asking for a formalized system for character creation, but it is a perfectly valid problem that can come up if there are absolutely no limits to how you build characters as long as you can logic out having all the powers at Godlike levels.

[Arcane Springboard]

OM112: "The game is designed
to make sure everyone gets their fair share of
fun. Remember that it’s also a group activity.
If you create a hero with d12 in every power,
your friends are going to give you that look.
You know the one."

You give him the look. All the other players should give him the look.

I dunno about you, but if after:

"From this information, write up a short summary of the hero.
Write down his name, his origin story or background, some notes about his powers and skills, notable catchphrases, that sort of thing. You should be able to hand this to someone who has never heard of your hero before and they should get a sense of who he is and what he can do."

This hypothetical player says: "I can do ANYTHING! I'M TEH AWESOMEST!!!!!!!!!! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH"

At that point, I'd quietly close my book and say, "You know, this might not be the game for you."

[Doc Hydrogen]

rampant speculation...

Yeah. There are two sides to how this is handled in games. One is to make the game have overly complex, often draconian rules for exactly how many pounds a character can lift, and the other is a simple social contract with your friends at the table.

The more traditional route necessitates hundreds of pages of character creation, the second is a table of gamers willing to say, "Hey, don't be a dick."

I've played using both types of systems, and frankly, I prefer the latter.

That little bit of power the game entrusts to the players, yeah, Spider-Man has a famous quote that's apropos. The game is saying, "Here's the power to create anything you want," and it's up to the other players and the Watcher to finish the sentence, "now don't abuse it."

[Mailer33]

A rough guideline for a mid level character could be around 4ish power traits, no more than 1 or 2 at d10, the others at d8 or d6

Try to keep it around 3-4 sfx

4-6 specialties, more at d8 than d10, maybe less specialties, but more at d10 or vice versa. Use character concept and reason as a guide.

If using two power sets, maybe less or no d10s in first set. Maybe a couple D8s in second, or maybe a higher die in defenses or travel or something in second.

Ignore these guidelines to fit character concept when necessary. If a player wants a really powerful hero, let them have a D12 or 2 and it shouldn't hurt.

If a player wants to play weaker character like Daredevil or black widow will do fine even with a team mate with a d12 or 2

If someone wants to play a character better than Thor in a non-cosmic game, they should maybe be discouraged--use Thor as the upper limit guideline for characters.

Balance powerful characters with tougher limitations--not too tough though.

[RoyMBar]

Sorry for going reductio ad absurdum, but there is only so many times I can read "Don't sweat the dice, no matter what the characters dice are, it'll all be even in play" before I start to lose it.

There are situations in which a player is going to be a dick, and there are situations in which a player isn't going to make his character powerful -enough- to be on the same level as everyone else. That is just a fact when there is no formalized character generation system.

I'm not asking for them to create a system and then publish it in the books, I was just asking for a system which would generate characters roughly of equivalent power, preferably based on the characters already published. Not ten responses of "I'm going to ignore what you are asking for, and instead say Don't sweat it, there doesn't need to be a system." When the only thing I was asking for was a system to make roughly equivalent powered characters.

Thank you for that reasonable system Mailer33.

[Doc Hydrogen]

Sorry for going reductio ad absurdum, but there is only so many times I can read "Don't sweat the dice, no matter what the characters dice are, it'll all be even in play" before I start to lose it.

There are situations in which a player is going to be a dick, and there are situations in which a player isn't going to make his character powerful -enough- to be on the same level as everyone else. That is just a fact when there is no formalized character generation system.

Honestly, I thought the same until I played it. It may drive you mad, but it's still true. Play the game with the pre-gens for a bit then add in someone like Thor, Doctor Strange, or the upgraded Sentry. It honestly doesn't change things that much.

[Mailer33]

Another couple of ways you could do it if the players need a little more guidance:

Pick a 4 or 5 pre-generated characters of a range of power levels and let the players pick one to use as a template. They use the characters dice structures and number of sfx but choose their own powers, sfx, and limits. Watcher should inspect for turdish behavior but dont be too strict

Or, roll up a random, but only use the dice and sfx provided as a template and let players pick the powers and specialties restricted to the random layout.