Question about character stress limitations.

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Hi all. My friend and I just recently started playing MHR and we both think it's a great system. However we wanted to know what limitations are there that help keep the game in balance? For instance, say for her action, ShadowCat punches the Sentry and rolls a 15 with a d10 effect. Sentry rolls for his reaction and fails. So now ShadowCat has just inflicted d10 physical stress on a character that went head to head with the Hulk in the comics.

Does anyone know what rules prevent situations like this from happening outside of just simply saying the Watcher doesn't allow it?

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

[mocachild]

narrative.

i know it sounds weak, but that is because most other rpgs try to simulate every possible tidbit within the mechanics.

MHR allows you to do whatever makes sense in the narrative. so if it makes sense then use the mechanics to make it work. if it doesn't make sense then just rule that it isn't possible. there is a section on this topic in the book on OM55 "Everyone Has Limits". The gist is that just because they have a D10 or D12 doesn't mean they can do anything they want. the watcher can narrate that cyclop's optic blast at a D12 is just not going to punch a hole in that vibranium suit of armor.

another more "mechanical" thing that i do in my games is that i check a power trait against the durability trait. if the power is less than i immediately step the die down. also, if a person without super strength decides to punch someone with a durabiltiy trait (especially D10 and D12) i just rule it not possible to cause any damage (heck the person may break their hand trying it at all).

however, for an actual example: spider-man flips over colossus and kicks him in the head. spidey rolls his dice pool which consists of a D10 strength die. he wins the roll and uses a d10 for effect (physical stress). now i compare spidey's strength trait (since it's a physical attack and not an energy blast for example) to colossus' durability trait. i note that colossus' durability is higher so i step the effect down by -1. then i follow the rest of the normal rules like comparing colossus' reaction effect die (maybe i used his d12 durability as an effect) now i can step the die down one more time. so spidey's d10 just became a d6 physical stress.

hope that made sense.

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Yes, it does make sense. Thanks for the response mocachild. As a matter of fact, we were thinking of resolving the situation along very similar lines much like your example. We just weren't sure if we were missing something in the OM section. I do like your checking the strength trait against the durability mechanic and will give it a try at our next session. Thanks again.

[babel2uk]

ShadowCat punches the Sentry and rolls a 15 with a d10 effect. Sentry rolls for his reaction and fails. So now ShadowCat has just inflicted d10 physical stress on a character that went head to head with the Hulk in the comics.

To be fair (as mocachild pointed out) it depends on the narrative description of the attack and what powers she adds in, as to how she could do this. I'd think it's perfectly fair to say that she's using her intangibility to cause internal damage rather than breaking her hand on his impervious skin. Just a matter of how you spin it. After all Stress is pretty much scratches and bruising figuratively speaking. It's not until you start generating trauma that serious damage is being inflicted, and by that point there should be enough set up for explaining that serious damage.

[mocachild]

yes babel. the narrative is the most important factor. if the description of the attack designates a bypass of durability, like bypassing Luke's steel hard skin, then by all means it should play as such.

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Duly noted. My friend and I,as I'm sure a lot of other folks, grew up on RPGs where stats were stressed (no pun intended) to be just as important as narration (and depending on the gm, more so in some cases). It's taking some getting used to but I actually like MHR's system (cortex?)the more I play it. Oh and I hope my inital response in my first post didn't come across as snarky mocachild. I reread it and thought it may have come across as such. I really do appreciate the tips!

[mocachild]

not a problem! it didn't come across badly at all. glad we could help out. it is a very different system and it does take some getting used to. i'm a "benchmark" person myself (meaning i like the hard "science" of how much stronger is Thing than Colossus and if someone that strong was to punch someone how would the physics actually work). The FASERIP version of the marvel roleplaying systems was one of my favorites simply for the fact that i could "see" how much stronger one character was over another and why a punch from captain america couldn't actually damage the thing (charts galore!).

however, now that i'm playing this game, i've come to really really like it. once i "got it" (the concept of how the game is designed to be played) it just made so much sense and there was a lot of freedom to tell the story the way you wanted.

hope you have a blast playing!

[MidnightBlue]

I've also been a fan of all of the various benchmark systems and I've enjoyed more than my fair share of "crunchy" rules systems that pretty much had rules for when a character needs to go to the rest room.

Still, one thing that MHR has shown me is that the more structured a rules system is, the less creative players become. That doesn't HAVE to be the case, but it has been my experience.

MHR gives us a system for ultimate creativity.

In the OP's example, Shadowcat vs. Sentry, a benchmark system might simply say, "Shadowcat can't win." But MHR says, "Narrate it...how are you, Shadowcat, going to take on the Sentry?"

This leads to cool actions like babel2uk's suggestion that maybe Shadowcat was using her intangibility to muck about in Sentry's softer bits. Vision does it all the time and I even saw Kitty Pride do something similar with a threat of squeezing Cyclop's heart to stop Dark Phoenix in Phoenix End Song.

Once a player (or Watcher) can retrain him/herself to stop looking for the rules to say "yes you can" or "no you can't," but let the narration win over...that's when MHR will truly shine.

I have moments where I still need to rethink a question/situation in a new light when I start looking for a "crunchy" answer myself.

[mocachild]

nice post Midnight. exactly right. on a slightly different note but on the topic of intangible heroes; my willing suspension of disbelief always struggles with the heroes that reach into someones body to do damage. I'm always thinking, wouldn't that hurt them as well when they reform? how would physics allow a tangible hand to be attached to an intangible arm? and wouldn't reforming a body part inside of another solid object do massive cellular damage to both object (kinda like how if nightcrawler was to teleport without looking and ended up inside a wall it would kill him); and how do they know when they've reached a vital organ, i wouldn't think an intangible person could feel solid objects very well (and it's obvious that they can't see what they are doing)...yada yada.

sometimes i just can't let fiction just be fun fiction.
have to remind myself to just have fun.

[Doc Hydrogen]

nice post Midnight. exactly right. on a slightly different note but on the topic of intangible heroes; my willing suspension of disbelief always struggles with the heroes that reach into someones body to do damage. I'm always thinking, wouldn't that hurt them as well when they reform? how would physics allow a tangible hand to be attached to an intangible arm? and wouldn't reforming a body part inside of another solid object do massive cellular damage to both object (kinda like how if nightcrawler was to teleport without looking and ended up inside a wall it would kill him); and how do they know when they've reached a vital organ, i wouldn't think an intangible person could feel solid objects very well (and it's obvious that they can't see what they are doing)...yada yada.

sometimes i just can't let fiction just be fun fiction.
have to remind myself to just have fun.

The same holds true for Superman lifting a jet. It should break in two, cracking where ever Supes is holding it because of all that weight being held up at such a small point of contact. But, it's comic book physics, where ruby beams of concussive force are filtered by red quartz glasses, and 70+ years of super-geniuses with out of this world technology haven't altered the course of history one iota.

Keep reminding yourself it's just fun time.