Highly Trained Folks Powerset Idea

[MidnightBlue]

I suppose I never got over Daredevil 163-164.


Jim

Heh...I thought the link might take me to the Acts of Vengeance Daredevil issue where DD took out ULTRON!



[Not making that up.]

[Doc Hydrogen]

Thanks for the sneak peek, Cam.

On the spectrum of player defined traits - game defined traits, I'm definitely more on the player defined side of things. I love me some Over the Edge, HeroQuest, etc. That same sensibility has followed me to Marvel Heroic. I'd much prefer the far more evocative style MidnightBlue used than having every single character defined by the same base dozen or so power traits.

[Mouse]

I was just considering the issue of an SFX for multiple Specialties earlier. I'm going to be converting a game to run on MHR, and the current version of one of the PCs is basically loaded with skills, but we find ourselves reaching a bit to justify her having much of a selection of powers.

I was worried about adding an extra d8 or d10 without cost. Most SFX that add stuff either add d6 or cost PP, and I didn't want the player to have to have to spend PP for potentially lots of actions. I hadn't considered the whole, "If you haven't added dice from this power set," thing as a cost of activation.

(And incidentally, I'm using d6 ratings for powers that don't usually have them in that game. I'm soon going to be introducing some super soldiers, but the program is just kicking off. So the first run of them is merely peak human and not yet super human. The first batch is going to get Strength, Reflexes, Durability, and Stamina rated at d6, all in one Power Set. So they're marginally more threatening than normal people.)

Good topic. There are some good ideas on here.

[salsa]

But really, don't we see that in the comics all the time. Batman may not be bench pressing the Moon, but when you put him in a JLA story with Superman, he is EVERY bit as "Effective."

And to me..that right there is the key word, "Effective."

I don't see the dice attributed to Power Traits as a sign of how much more powerful a character is over another, but how much more effective a character is.

With this rational, I could easily see Batman & Nick Fury types of characters with D8, D10...heck, maybe even D12 dice depending on how you label/narrate those traits.

It works for me anyway.

Reminds me of JLU's last episode, Destroyer. Batman hits Darkseid with a flying kick, it's CLEARLY somewhat effective since the villain proceeds to charge his omega beams and says "Flee...". Batman pissed this guy off, this guy happens to be just as invulnerable as Superman and just as tough.

Moments later... Batman runs away from the omega beam zipping around the scene and leapfrogs a parademon placing the minion right in front of the beam... Darkseid goes: "Impressive, I wonder if the other one is as agile" while looking at Lex Luthor.

I can't seem to find a better example.

[starphoenix26]

on the concept of using d6s..

i don't see how they couldn't be labeled useful for defining lesser specialties just learned powers.

i just labeled it as adept (just like watcher characters have it.) since the point of this rule system is narrative, i don't see the harm in rolling d6 at all.

and i can see supplanter's sfx in use with pre sercret invasion mockingbird, white tiger , and pre civil war moon knight, very nicely done.

[MidnightBlue]

I definitely wouldn't have a problem with a player statting out a datafile's power traits with D6's if that's what he/she wanted to do.

Reminds me of JLU's last episode, Destroyer. Batman hits Darkseid with a flying kick, it's CLEARLY somewhat effective since the villain proceeds to charge his omega beams and says "Flee...". Batman pissed this guy off, this guy happens to be just as invulnerable as Superman and just as tough.

Moments later... Batman runs away from the omega beam zipping around the scene and leapfrogs a parademon placing the minion right in front of the beam... Darkseid goes: "Impressive, I wonder if the other one is as agile" while looking at Lex Luthor.

I can't seem to find a better example.

Bat's did something similar in the Batman/Superman collection where they reintroduced Supergirl.

While Superman was dealing with Supergirl, Batman was dealing with Darkseid. Batman couldn't beat Darkseid physically (though he did throw some punches), but he outsmarted him.

Maybe to go up against Darkseid in that MHR version of the Event Batman needs a power trait - I've Always Got a Plan D12?

If a player wanted to give Bat's one that said Extreme Training Strength D6...that's fine, but that isn't going to be the way that Batman is going to take on Darkseid. At least I sure HOPE that it isn't.



Luthor is another great example of what I'm getting at. I've seen plenty of issues that show that Lex is well trained in hand-to-hand combat and keeps him at better than most human standards. So a player could make a case to give him this Trained Strength D6. But Luthor is Superman's archnemesis. When they meet on the field of battle, Lex better have something else on his datafile besides a D6 phyisical attack power trait or else that is the WORST hero/villain matchup EVER. Maybe Lex has Extraterrestrial Insight D10...with an SFX that steps that up to D12 when dealing with Kryptonians?

I'm not suggesting that anyone has to or should approach the game in this manner, but it is how the game concept works best in my mind and for my tastes.

[As a side note...I notice that I keep coming up with DC examples on the Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game. I need to change up my universes.]

[Supplanter]

If a player wanted to give Bat's one that said Extreme Training Strength D6...that's fine, but that isn't going to be the way that Batman is going to take on Darkseid. At least I sure HOPE that it isn't.

Oh, agreed! Within the context of MHRP's datafile paradigm, I would handle Justice League Batman (animated or print) with a couple of pretty minor tweaks:

[list=]
[*]Jim's training SFX from the OP (so he can roll two Specialties at a time "for free"
[*]Supreme Specialties in some or all of Combat, Covert, Menace, Psych, Tech and Cosmic too. (I'm thinking of Bats beating the White Martians in Grant Morrison's first JLA arc.)
[/list]

That's right: I'm not only hacking MHRP to use D6 Power Traits, I'm hacking it to use D12 Specialties. BECAUSE I AM JUST THAT RADICAL!


Jim

[MidnightBlue]

Heh...you ARE radical!



Once again, this just points out to me how great and versatile this system is.

We are all doing the same things in this thread, namely making non-powered characters competitive with super powered characters. We've just found MANY ways to pull it off to our tastes.

That is the definition of a great system to me.

[Side note: I loved New World Order..that JLA collection you referenced. If I ever make a Batman datafile for a Hyperclan Event, I'm giving him a power trait called "Flick a Bic - D12." I'm STILL waiting for my Hyperclan Heroclix pieces...come ON Wizkids!]

[Mouse]

That's right: I'm not only hacking MHRP to use D6 Power Traits, I'm hacking it to use D12 Specialties. BECAUSE I AM JUST THAT RADICAL!

Hm. Combining this thought with an earlier thought, how about a version of Unleashed that works with Specialties? You get to step up or double a single Specialty (thus, a Master could grant you a d12, which is how my mind got to this) but if the roll fails you add a die to the doom pool equal to the normal rating of the Specialty.

You probably need some stipulation on which Specialties you can use it with. Powers can get shut down, so attaching the SFX to Specialties is intrinsically less fragile. So you might need to restrict it to something like two Specialties. You're basically sacrificing flexibility in order to not possibly lose access to it completely.

Or something.

[dgh1973]

I like the system the way it is, and also enjoy the "non-powered" powers type of heroes.

I think the D8's are basically there for these enhanced type of folks, but I don't think that makes it an overused or limiting schtick all in it's own. I do like the idea of some powers that can by used as D6 to reflect something that seems like a power but really isn't.

I think the real gold in how you can get away with this is in the SFX and limits. If there's another product I would buy instantly for this game (besides Civil War of course(; ) it would be a supplement that expands upon these.

Here's my idea for a non-super mental genius, modeled a bit after "L" from Death Note and Steve Jobs (R.I.P.) and his alleged "reality distortion field".


Analytical Mind
Enhanced Senses D8
Enhanced Reflexes D8
Psychic Resistance D8
Mind Control D6

SFX: Infallible logic. Reaction to mental stress allows free retaliation or step up for 1 PP.
SFX: Mastermind. Spend 1 PP to use highest Doom die as asset, then step down and return.
SFX: Stay one step ahead. If using a power in this set spend 1 PP to reroll.
SFX: I better be right. Step up or double power for action. On fail add original die to Doom.
Limit: Persuasive. You cannot use Mind Control to alter the minds of others in any way.
Limit: Migraines. Shutdown a single trait for 1 PP. Recover on opportunity or transition.

The mind control would be pretty limited here; this would be a hero who would pass out more subtle "think about your life" style complications rather than "beat on your team mates", but I think from a narrative perspective you could make heroes like this a lot of fun playing planners behind the scenes. Reflexes could probably also use a "custom" limit of some kind here because it was designed to reflect being mentally a step ahead of everyone else, but the idea comes across.