Rules Question

[chaosnet]

Hey guys!

In my session last night, my heroes were battling the villains onboard a high tech bullet train. One of the heroes used his Superhuman Strength to knock an opposing villain through the wall, which I ruled would require at least a D10 effect. True to form, the hero's effect die to perform the Knockback Stunt was a D12 and I described it as an earthshaking blow that knocked the villain through the reinfoced steel walls as the train crossed a high bridge...the hero could see the villain falling into the raging river below.

So after that, the player said "how much damage did he take?" to which i responded "none, you used your effect die to knock him back." Phoney! was the response that i got.

Now I'm still learning, but wouldn't the player have had to spend 1 PP (in addition to the 1 PP for the stunt, or did it even HAVE to be a stunt?) to add another effect die which would have been applied as stress? I couldve sworn that I read that only one effect die can be applied to a target, so is it even possible for Hero X to apply a D8 Knockback (Asset, Complication?) AND a D10 Physical Stress to Villain Y?

Thanks for the help!

[pksullivan]

The short answer: yes, you can apply multiple effect dice but not multiple stress dice of the same type. No double dipping* to bump up stress!

The long answer: in order to apply multiple effect dice, the hero will need to spend a plot point. Doing so allows for a second effect, such as a complication of "Falling D8" or an asset of "Handy sheet of metal D10" (could be used to wrap up the villain, maybe).

That said, it's perfectly fine to narrate that the mighty blow knocks the enemy through the wall of the train and out over the river dealing D12 stress... that just means the heroes will have to go after the villain to finish the job.

*This is what extraordinary successes are for. If you have a D10 effect die and there's a spare 8 on a D8 lying around, spend a PP to add that to your result! You step up your effect die by +1 for every 5 you beat the opponent's result.

[EldritchFire]

If the attack stressed them out, knocking them off the train is just part of the description, otherwise it would cost a PP, yes.

Also note that knocking them out of the train is not a stunt…unless the player wanted it to be. A stunt is nothing more than the carrot used to get more description out of people, and they get a juicy d8 to play with. Indeed, if the villain in question has flight, teleportation, swinging, or some other form of movement that would allow them to return to the train, I wouldn't even require a specific effect die, the effect would be a complication they would have to overcometo get back on the train.

-EF

[Grimmshade]

I would say that the d12 could be used for Physical stress, and the rest could all be cool description. As long as the hero was strong enough to break the wall, I would allow it to be part of the narrative. However, unless the villain was willing to go flying off the train, I would also rule that the villain grabbed on after flying outside. This way there is no extra benefit given, but the villain is damaged in a cool way.

[Mouse]

This is one of those odd situations that make some players pull their hair out: You need to ask things like, "Did you knock him off the train mechanically, or just descriptively?" It does require a bit of change of perspective.

[salsa]

This is one of those odd situations that make some players pull their hair out: You need to ask things like, "Did you knock him off the train mechanically, or just descriptively?" It does require a bit of change of perspective.

This is the kind of requirement needed only to safeguard yourself against reprimands produced by a mindset particularly unwanted in a game like this.

All in all, it doesn't hurt to remind your player of basic rules before they attempt anything.

"Remember, if you just include the knockback in the description of your damage it won't really have a lasting effect, unless you spend a PP for an additional effect die and make it a complication."

[chaosnet]

So, theoretically the player could've put a D12 "I knocked you to the moon" COMPLICATION on the villain, who would have to use his die pool to reduce simulating the villain's attempts to get back to the combat site?

[mocachild]

yep. it could work that way if that's what the player was aiming for in his narrative. also, as has been mentioned above, he could just have used the D12 for stress and you could have just narrated that the hit was powerful enough to send him through the wall and over the edge.

depends on what you are wanting to happen.

[EldritchFire]

One thing to keep in mind is OM46, the first step of doing anything is to "As a player, when it’s time for your action, you need to make your intent as clear as possible to the Watcher and other players before you even pick up the dice."

I think this is one of the most important sentences in the entire book. I mean, really, the rest is kind of beside the point if no one knows what you're doing. It's a common mistake we've all made - myself included - that we roll dice before or while telling what we're trying to do. It makes sense in our mind, sure, but not always for the rest of the group.

-EF

[Mouse]

This is the kind of requirement needed only to safeguard yourself against reprimands produced by a mindset particularly unwanted in a game like this.

My experience with other abstract games where there are none the less tactical considerations suggests to me that insistence on clear communication isn't to mitigate the negative so much as to facilitate and maximize the positive. I've had the most fun in these situations when communication has been the best.