Help me understand Limits

[Duck Call Lass]

Okay, I can't get my head around some limits, particularly the Gear one.

As written, if a hero loses her gear, she gains a PP and has to roll to get the item back. Got that part.

I'm not sure about when it triggers, though, and who can trigger it.

I've got the following worked out but I'm not 100% sure it's right:

* Obviously at any time the hero can say she loses her item and gets the reward.

* Does this happen often, though? Are most players willing to give up a powerset just to get a plot point?

* At some point the Watcher can make the hero lose her item.

* But first the player gets the option to lose it and gain a PP, right? And if the player doesn't choose that, then the Watcher can spend a die from the Doom Pool.

* Can the Watcher do this at any time? Whenever it's story appropriate? Whenever the Watcher says "Mister Hyde rips the shield from your hands"? Can the player refuse?

* SHOULD the Watcher do this whenever he can?

[chaosnet]

I believe the Watcher can activate a limit, per OM92, by spending from the Doom Pool however you the player get the right of first rufusal.

What this says to me is that the Watcher would say, "I am spending a Doom Pool die to make Cap's shield take an odd bounce and land across the street on an awning (simulating the gear limit being activated), would you like to invoke first refusal?". To the the player would most likely say "Heck Yeah! The shield bounces off of the awning and lands about 20 feet from Cap, instead of across the street!" and would gain 1 PP for activating the limit.

Cap's player would then need to take an action against the Doom Pool, or wait until the next Transition Scene to regain his Mighty Shield.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

[EldritchFire]

What chaosnet said. Limits can be triggered anytime they are appropriate. For example, Cyclops or Watcher can trigger his Ruby Visor limit (gear) and the player can get a PP or Watcher can spend a doom die at any time. However, Cyclops' player couldn't trigger the Mutant limit unless there was an appropriate anti-mutant tech/milestone in play.

Same for Capt America. He can lose his shield anytime he wants the PP, or even declare Capt. is too tired to run fast (exhausted on Enhanced Agility) for a much needed PP. However, he can only take increased emotional stress for a PP if it's inflicted by government forces/popular opinion.

If you want to see the gear limit in play, check out the actual play example: http://www.margaretweis.com/images/stor ... ofplay.pdf

-EF

[Majestic]

Good question, btw. I think I understand Limits, but haven't seen them come up at all in play yet. Certainly some Limits (like the gear one) would probably come up more often than others (like the mutant one mentioned).

What about the rest of you? Have you seen them used a lot? Activated them much yourself as a Watcher or a player?

[PlotPointsFelipe]

One of the main dilemmas i face with my group with Marvel RPG, is the urge to "win" that some of my players have. I guess, that the most fun in Marvel RPG is to manage and handle self imposed complications and assets, thats when limits come in huge play. I may want to "loose" some firepower just to make the story better.

When the players buy into that, the Marvel RPG realy shines!

[brianliberge]

I've seen a lot of limits in play, many of which were started by the players. There's a lot you can do with a plot point, and it usually doesn't take very long for someone to roll an opportunity (which helps you reclaim most limits).

What I have a harder time with is getting the players to target the villains limits. I'm not sure if I should blatantly tell my players what they are, but at the very least I feel like I need to indicate somehow a rough idea of them.

[EldritchFire]

The last time I was Watcher, I activated limits like there is no tomorrow! Count Neferia was down most of his powers after the third "round" of the encounter.

As a player, limits are a win/win situation. Sure, you may lose a power or two, but you usually get a plot point! Heck, Iron Man has a milestone all about shutting opdown his power sets (Bleeding Edge Tech)!

Most players just need reminding of the benefits of activating their limits.

-EF

[salsa]

What this says to me is that the Watcher would say, "I am spending a Doom Pool die to make Cap's shield take an odd bounce and land across the street on an awning (simulating the gear limit being activated), would you like to invoke first refusal?". To the the player would most likely say "Heck Yeah! The shield bounces off of the awning and lands about 20 feet from Cap, instead of across the street!" and would gain 1 PP for activating the limit.

It doesn't really matter if it fell 2 feet away or across the street. He still needs the opportunity or a transition scene to retrieve the gear. If it fell 2 feet away you need some additional explanation to why he can't simply walk next to it and pick it up. Otherwise, it will be quite ridiculous... You could also describe his failed attempts to retrieve it because of other combat hazards.

One of the main dilemmas i face with my group with Marvel RPG, is the urge to "win" that some of my players have. I guess, that the most fun in Marvel RPG is to manage and handle self imposed complications and assets, thats when limits come in huge play. I may want to "loose" some firepower just to make the story better.

When the players buy into that, the Marvel RPG realy shines!

That urge, thankfully, I've "stripped out" of my players. Thanks to Spirit of the Century, M&M and apparently most games nowadays use some mechanic in those lines. You need to fail to improve your abilities so you can "win" at a later moment of the plot. They know they'll never "get the bad guy" in the first scene of the adventure. First, because it's boring. Second, because they know they can use it to acquire Hero Points/Fate Points and clobber that villain later on. Third, it's the only chance those villains will get to shine in the adventure.

P.S. I just noticed Felipe is brazilian and he has successfully portrayed to us one of the recurring traits of our fellow country players. "The GM is a 'threat' and you must beat HIM not the adventure!"

[N01H3r3]

It doesn't really matter if it fell 2 feet away or across the street. He still needs the opportunity or a transition scene to retrieve the gear. If it fell 2 feet away you need some additional explanation to why he can't simply walk next to it and pick it up. Otherwise, it will be quite ridiculous... You could also describe his failed attempts to retrieve it because of other combat hazards.

Actually, with the Gear limit, you just need to roll against Doom to recover the power - you don't need an Opportunity or a Transition Scene for that (unlike some other Limits).

[MidnightBlue]

But Salsa's point is the same.

It doesn't really matter how far away the shield lands except for narrative purpose.

You still need to make that roll against the Doom Pool either way.

How a failure on the Doom Pool roll to grab the shield plays out could be interesting and half the fun of being a Watcher. Maybe the shield falls through a crack in the floor...or slides just a bit farther down the ledge of an active volcano...or a minion kicks it in the scuffle.