Highly Trained Folks Powerset Idea

[Spatula]

I see the D6 traits as a useful tool to fill out the die pool for low-powered characters that otherwise wouldn't have traits. And using D6 traits doesn't require existing datafiles to be rewritten, as those characters already have the ability to build decent dice pools.

Black Widow, for example, probably has D6 strength but there's no point in including it when she relies on her D8 reflexes in combat. A non-super-strong tough guy, OTOH, can have a D6 strength trait listed because (a) that's how he fights, and (b) he isn't at the D8 level.

[MidnightBlue]

First off...I like the work you did in the OP, Supplanter.


Second, I'd like to add how I've been thinking on this subject.

Personally, I'm not worrying too much about the "attributes."

I think MHR gives us the perfect way out of the benchmark trap of other games.

If you want to make a non-super-powered, highly-trained individual that has power sets, I think it is the easiest thing in the world to do via a few name changes.


These are rough and off the top of my head...be forgiving...



I Trained For JUSTICE!
I Know My City! D8
(Speed...can be attributed to any number of vehicles, shortcuts, private access, roof top jumping and other means of moving through the city.)

I Hear the Cries of Her Children! D10
(Senses...training, tapping into city traffic and security cams, having your own tech spy gear &/or your own collection of snitches around town.)

I Know How to Make Her Assaulters Bleed! D10
(Attack...extreme martial arts, highly skilled use of weapons/gadgets, creative use of your city's attributes/scenery in your attacks.)

She Protects Me In My Mission! D8
(Durability/Stamina...extreme body training, body armor, using the city to your advantage, having a personal doc/clinic in your debt or on your budget.)

Sprinkle liberally in SFX's as Supplanter offered in example.

Limit: Driven and Dedicated...But Still Only Human (Exhausted).



That was quick and dirty, but it is just an example to show that getting too hung up on power names can be far more limiting than you need to be with this system. The above power set has a power for attack, defense/healing, senses and travel.

In my example, you still get super powered level dice, but they are narrated with non-powered effects.

You might look at this concept and think, "But that means that a non-powered guy can be just as powerful as a superhuman god?" And you'd be right.

But really, don't we see that in the comics all the time. Batman may not be bench pressing the Moon, but when you put him in a JLA story with Superman, he is EVERY bit as "Effective."

And to me..that right there is the key word, "Effective."

I don't see the dice attributed to Power Traits as a sign of how much more powerful a character is over another, but how much more effective a character is.

With this rational, I could easily see Batman & Nick Fury types of characters with D8, D10...heck, maybe even D12 dice depending on how you label/narrate those traits.

Just my two cents.

It works for me anyway.

[vitruvian]

But that doesn't really seem right there is no D6 Strength and Stamina.

Yea, I'm a firm believer of the philosophy "D6s should come from push dice if they are displays of adrenaline surge". And considering you can stunt them into D8s, opportunity react them into d8s or even stunt react them into d10s; It all seems a little odd to allow for so many power traits at d6 (besides senses for obvious reasons, you don't surge your senses, but some people will find a way to describe that and include that stunt die, hehe). But hey, that's just me.

Although, allowing that "free extra push die" to highly trained watcher characters wouldn't seem odd if you just want to give them an edge over the heroes. It's also okay if you intend to disallow high levels of durability and attributes in your campaign.

So, you don't allow Speed or Flight or Weapon at D6 either, then, even though they're in the book?

[Cam]

Sneak peek at one of Clint Barton's Power Sets (subject to change):

EXCEPTIONAL TRAINING
ENHANCED REFLEXES D8, ENHANCED SENSES D8, ENHANCED STAMINA D8
SFX: Fortune Favors the Bold. Spend 1 PP to reroll when using any EXCEPTIONAL TRAINING power.
Limit: Headstrong. Step up mental or emotional stress included in an action that targets you and gain 1 PP. Step back stress by 1 step if the action fails.

Cheers,
Cam

[MidnightBlue]

I love that limit!

[Supplanter]

Sneak peek at one of Clint Barton's Power Sets (subject to change):

EXCEPTIONAL TRAINING
ENHANCED REFLEXES D8, ENHANCED SENSES D8, ENHANCED STAMINA D8
SFX: Fortune Favors the Bold. Spend 1 PP to reroll when using any EXCEPTIONAL TRAINING power.
Limit: Headstrong. Step up mental or emotional stress included in an action that targets you and gain 1 PP. Step back stress by 1 step if the action fails.

Neat. So pretty much, "Enhanced" "attributes" are within range of non-metahuman athletes if we're willing to work hard and eat right, yes?


Jim

[Supplanter]

First off...I like the work you did in the OP, Supplanter.

Thanks!

These are rough and off the top of my head...be forgiving...

I Trained For JUSTICE!
I Know My City! D8
<MAJOR SNIPPAGE>
It works for me anyway.

You could totally do it that way. It's funny: I once mulled over hacking Over The Edge to do supers sorta-kinda like this. (I don't know if you know Over The Edge, but it may have been the first "free-form trait" game. In some ways the first five years of designs from The Forge(TM) amounted to OTE hacks.) And just within the last week, Atlas Games announces that they're taking OTE's system OGL!

I personally wouldn't take MHRP in this direction for various reasons. But it's perfectly viable mechanically, yes.


Jim

[Grimmshade]

Sneak peek at one of Clint Barton's Power Sets (subject to change):

EXCEPTIONAL TRAINING
ENHANCED REFLEXES D8, ENHANCED SENSES D8, ENHANCED STAMINA D8
SFX: Fortune Favors the Bold. Spend 1 PP to reroll when using any EXCEPTIONAL TRAINING power.
Limit: Headstrong. Step up mental or emotional stress included in an action that targets you and gain 1 PP. Step back stress by 1 step if the action fails.

Cheers,
Cam

Ooooh, I like that a lot.

[MidnightBlue]

These are rough and off the top of my head...be forgiving...

I Trained For JUSTICE!
I Know My City! D8
<MAJOR SNIPPAGE>
It works for me anyway.

You could totally do it that way. It's funny: I once mulled over hacking Over The Edge to do supers sorta-kinda like this. (I don't know if you know Over The Edge, but it may have been the first "free-form trait" game. In some ways the first five years of designs from The Forge(TM) amounted to OTE hacks.) And just within the last week, Atlas Games announces that they're taking OTE's system OGL!

I personally wouldn't take MHRP in this direction for various reasons. But it's perfectly viable mechanically, yes.


Jim

Heh...OTE must be one of the few systems I didn't buy into!



I actually don't know much (anything) about that game.


And I can definitely see where my take on this game wouldn't be for everyone.

It really takes me back to my early days with Heroclix. I lobbied and discussed for YEARS that Heroclix should develop a benchmark system. How can Batman be doing three damage when Spider-man couldn't do three damage? How can a Superman dial ever get to a point that it can't break through a wall? Why do we have a Weather Wizard dial that has a range of 10, but Parallex can only shoot eight squares? And on, and on, and on. I simply could not wrap my head around how Wizkids determined the dials for figures that were so far off from any kind of benchmarks between the characters.

It really wasn't until a couple of years ago that a light bulb went off in my head and I started looking at those Heroclix dials in a different way. It also changed the way that I looked at characters in the comics and comic movies/shows...and now, MHR.

What I started to notice was that:

1. There are no benchmarks. Writers in comics will let a character do or not do anything that lets them tell the stories that they want to tell. So how can there be a benchmark when the authors change the rules between stories?

2. The numbers on those Heroclix dials don't have to translate directly to muscle mass and school grades, but to the effect that a character has on a story/game.

Spider-Man may not be able to manifest the power of the Silver Surfer on a day to day basis, but you can bet that he moves a story every bit as well. And I guarantee you that when an author puts Spider-Man and the Silver Surfer in the same issue, Spider-Man won't be sitting on the sidelines pouting and letting Silver Surfer steal the show. That author will make darned sure that Spidey is as important to a story as the Surfer is...if not more so. I think MHR lets us represent that in the form of die codes...at least to some degree.

Narration and dice pools is how you move the story in MHR. No matter what a character's origin or power level, if you want them to have a significant impact on the story, then you have to give them the tools to do so.

I think I could come up with some pretty good rationals for making "merely human" datafiles that have power sets with D12 traits. I prefer to keep D12's rare in a game (unless playing a God level game...say a Pantheon or something), but when someone is the best at what he does (put your hand down, Wolverine), then I can see granting it.

I could see Nick Fury (Marvel) or Batman (DC) having a power trait that equates to Godlike Senses D12. Those two know EVERYTHING that is going on depending on the story. They have access to insane levels of intelligence gathering resources and often have made contingencies for their contingencies years in advance of a major event.

Anyway...as I've said...it's just another way to look at MHR's options and one that there is no way I would have been able to see the virtues of even two years ago. Funny how a mindset can switch so radically...almost overnight.



But no...this definitely wouldn't be for everyone.

[Supplanter]

<snip>

I suppose I never got over Daredevil 163-164.


Jim