Scene Distinctions: Redux - A House-Rule Option

[Supplanter]

One of our groups tried the alternate "one free personal distinction AND one free scene distinction per roll, so long as one's a D8 and the other is a D4" but didn't really like it. So I've been mulling another way to encourage Scene Distinction use, and came up with an idea inspired by what I think of as the best rule in Exalted. So:

IF you do a Stunt this roll, and include a positive Scene Distinction die, and the Stunt incorporates the Scene Distinction into its description, step the Scene Distinction up from a D8 to a D10.

Benefits: It does encourage you to use Scene Distinctions. It satisfies the "why wouldn't I do this every roll?" test: you're not always Stunting. The reward is measurable but not overwhelming. You still get to/have to choose whether to get instant or delayed gratification from your Distinction die: EARN a PP by rolling a D4, take the immediate benefit of a D8, or SPEND a PP (on a fun Stunt) and get a D10.

Drawbacks: It's fiddly: one more thing to remember about Stunts and Distinctions and die-pool-building.


Jim

[MidnightBlue]

I'm not trying to be argumentative here...I have a legitimate question on this topic. Also, I've just started playing in a PBP game which is my only actual play experience so far.

My question:

Is this really an issue? I've seen the topic brought up before so I'm curious how important this is in a game.

I mean, Scene Distinctions just offer another way to get to use Distinctions when a hero's/villain's might not be appropriate, right?

It's just another narrative tool in my eyes, but nothing that is being forced on a character...those would be complications or assets.

It just seems to me that it is a perfectly legitimate choice for the player/Watcher to decide whether to use Scene Distinctions or not.

Am I mistaken on this?

(I'm really asking...not being snide or sarcastic.)

[chaosnet]

I like the idea of Scene Distinctions, however they are only a narrative tool to me. Currenly I am in my office and it has the following distinctions:

*Stuff Everywhere
*NPR in the background

So what does this mean? Well Chaosnet's Distinctions are as follows:

*Boss with a short fuse
*I'm here, but I'm thinking about something else
*Yes, I do believe there are stupid questions

So if one of my employees enters my office and starts engaging me in Mental/Emotional Stress combat about their low efficiency scores, i could react by using "Stuff Everywhere D4" as I move to choke them out but can't get to them.

I could take "NPR in the background D8" as i center my mind with news from around there world, thus not being as affected by their drivel.

Now, while this is nice...I couldve gone with the tried and true "Boss with a short fuse" and lambasted them in a tirade that causes my forehead vein to appear, or any of my other personal distinctions. To me this kindve makes the Scene Distinctions kindve "meh".

I would prefer them to act as persistent asset/complications, or even as Supplanter says...allow them to be used, but step them up so that they are relevant.

Now, with this in mind if I have the opportunity to say "Boss with a Short Fuse D8" is not better than "Suff Everywhere D10" since with "Stuff Everywhere" I can easily toss Random_Item_00 at them.

[MidnightBlue]

I look at Scene Distinctions as giving the players/watcher Distinction options which could very well be relevent to any action taken in that scene.

Personal Distinctions might not always be useful positively or negatively.

Scene Distinctions also add variety.

I've only got three Distinctions on my datafile. After a while, I'm going to get tired of making my narrations fit the same box to incorporate those three Distinctions (negatively/positively). But Scene Distinctions give me new options with every scene I swing/fly/jump/run into. So instead of using "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" negatively for the umpteenth time, maybe I'll use the Scene Distinction "Smokey" to grab that D4 and get +1 PP for a little diversity.

Anyway, that's how I'm looking at SD's.

Now maybe someone wants to come up with a house rule for Scene Complications or Scene Assets that are just present and everyone has to deal with until they are overcome/used up? You'd also be able to stat it at any die that the watcher deemed appropriate (D4-D12).

This sounds like what some people are after to me.

Scene Complication: Darkness D10

Everyone that makes an attack/action will have this D10 used against them in reaction rolls until it is somehow overcome. I.e. fix the backup generator or some such.

While I could see that this might be desirable to some, I still think it will cause more headaches than it is worth.

With the example above, SC: Darkness D10, what if my character has Enhanced Senses and I say that includes nightvision. Do I just beat the Scene Complication?

Anyway, it's an option for those that want it.

Myself...I don't see a need to fiddle with Scene Distinctions, but if others find a way to make the game better for them, more power to ya!

[EldritchFire]

I like the idea of Scene Distinctions, however they are only a narrative tool to me. Currenly I am in my office and it has the following distinctions:

*Stuff Everywhere
*NPR in the background

So what does this mean? Well Chaosnet's Distinctions are as follows:

*Boss with a short fuse
*I'm here, but I'm thinking about something else
*Yes, I do believe there are stupid questions

So if one of my employees enters my office and starts engaging me in Mental/Emotional Stress combat about their low efficiency scores, i could react by using "Stuff Everywhere D4" as I move to choke them out but can't get to them.

I could take "NPR in the background D8" as i center my mind with news from around there world, thus not being as affected by their drivel.

Now, while this is nice...I couldve gone with the tried and true "Boss with a short fuse" and lambasted them in a tirade that causes my forehead vein to appear, or any of my other personal distinctions. To me this kindve makes the Scene Distinctions kindve "meh".

I would prefer them to act as persistent asset/complications, or even as Supplanter says...allow them to be used, but step them up so that they are relevant.

Now, with this in mind if I have the opportunity to say "Boss with a Short Fuse D8" is not better than "Suff Everywhere D10" since with "Stuff Everywhere" I can easily toss Random_Item_00 at them.

So you're saying Peter Parker works for you? :p

Couldn't resist, it sounded SO much like J. Jonah Jameson!

-EF

[Duck Call Lass]

I don't really like this house rule or think it's necessary; I think scene distinctions (with Cam's extra rule added) work fine as they are.

Jim, what are you finding is happening where people aren't using scene distinctions, and why is that bugging you if the narrative is presumably going fine?

[Supplanter]

I don't really like this house rule or think it's necessary; I think scene distinctions (with Cam's extra rule added) work fine as they are.

Jim, what are you finding is happening where people aren't using scene distinctions, and why is that bugging you if the narrative is presumably going fine?

Actually, it doesn't really bug me.

In our groups, people don't use Scene Distinctions a lot, but they do use them occasionally. Other people were frustrated that SDs were lying fallow in their own games; I took more of a live-and-let-live attitude toward it: letting the flow of play go wherever, and when someone feels frustrated with how their personal distinctions fit into a situation, reminding them that SDs are available as an alternative.

And as mentioned, we ended up disliking the D8-this-plus-D4-that rule.

For me, this is more of an opportunity to bring some additional coolness to people's narrations of their actions, and make the setting that much more salient, than it's a solution to a problem I'm having. Basically, I really like that rule in Exalted where you get an extra bonus if your stunt description incorporates already established scene details.


Jim

[Cam]

Jim, if it wasn't a big deal, why was the d4/d8 option disliked? Players thought it added too many extra dice?

Cheers,
Cam

[Battlechimp]

Jim, if it wasn't a big deal, why was the d4/d8 option disliked? Players thought it added too many extra dice?

Personally, I'm not a fan of it because, from my understanding, when you do that you get a PP from the d4. That's basically a free PP every action, and the one thing my players do NOT need is more free PP.

You can already roll double distinctions at the cost of NOT earning a PP for the d4. My players are shrewed enough that one has already caught onto doing just that as it becomes a 1 in 4 chance of an opportunity and thus plot point. Not to mention that since an effect die always defaults to a d4 it makes some sense when you're only at 2 or 3 dice to just add it in an roll it and maybe it rolls higher then a larger die that can then become the effect.

Mainly I find scene distinctions handy for villians who often get stuck with distinctions that aren't really handy for punching people in the face. It's much easier to use a scene distinction to hinder the heroes that way. Also when my players are hard up for a PP scene distinctions are really low hanging creative fruit to pick from in how it hinders.

[Supplanter]

Jim, if it wasn't a big deal, why was the d4/d8 option disliked? Players thought it added too many extra dice?

So, I can't speak for my whole group. e.g. D***T**G*** may have different reasons than me. (And he likes it for the Fantasy Heroic RP hack, just not for Marvel.)

For me, I really like game mechanics that are trade-offs, and I like them even better if the trade-offs reveal character. I also like choices that make the fiction more vivid.

By the RAW, D8 or D4+PP is an awesome example of a trade-off that reveals character. I either have a better chance of success now or I sacrifice that for the PP that will give me a better chance of success later, and I do that in a way that says something.

Like, a Newvengers' action scene in 1984, because Kang: "Magnitude is His Mother's Son. And THAT'S Mom right there in her Wasp costume, looking totally beautiful and young(ish), and THAT'S freaking him out." Holds up a D4, collects Plot Point. I love that. And it matters mechanically, because it IS a trade-off.

With the "One scene plus one personal, one at D8 and one at D4 every roll," the trade-off goes away completely. I just AM getting a D8, a D4 AND a PP every roll, for all practical purposes. And because it's one more die to gloss, it makes scene and personal distinctions LESS vivid at painting the narrative picture rather than more, if anything.

And, also, yeah, too many dice. But that's secondary to the fact that each of them means less.

IMHO!


Jim