Weapons and Power Sets

[konate]

I guess my point is, how would most villians that disarmed DD justify a Billy Club asset much greater than d6 when DD (who's one of the most skilled billy club users) only has a d6? To compound that thought, by using the same mechanics, DD could bump it up to d12 himself.

The whole asset concept appears kinda wonky when you look at it this way.

[MidnightBlue]

I guess my point is, how would most villians that disarmed DD justify a Billy Club asset much greater than d6 when DD (who's one of the most skilled billy club users) only has a d6? To compound that thought, by using the same mechanics, DD could bump it up to d12 himself.

The whole asset concept appears kinda wonky when you look at it this way.

Except, as Cam stated above, "Billy Club" has no inherent value. Any value you get from it comes from the amount of effort you put into making "Billy Club" an important part of your story.

So DD gets a free D6 in his dice pool when he uses his billy club as a weapon (per his Power Set), but he can also create an asset/stunt/resource/complication that is narrated as being applicable to DD's use of said billy club as well...making it much more than just a D6 "item."

It is hard not looking at these things as a typical RPG equipment list with game stats, isn't it?

Longsword D8, Dagger D4, Shortsword D6, etc.

That's what most of us are used to.

But I have to say, I do like the different feel of the game, even if it takes some getting used to.

[konate]

It will be interesting to see how Moon Knight and the Punisher are handled in Civil War with respect to equipment dice.

[Waxfire]

Thanks for the responses. It certainly is different wrapping one's head around a narrative-based game as opposed to a more traditional game.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure I like the idea that some weapons are more powerful in different character's hands. It would make more sense that their increased ability is reflected properly in through their combat expertise or a power rather than in having a stronger asset as in the example with Daredevil's billy club, even if it was himself using it as a stronger asset. In any case, good to know how they work according to the RAW.

I think I would houserule that certain weapons have certain die ratings and that if you want to get the die rating from them as an asset, you must make an asset using that die rating or higher, but you can't get a higher die rating than the weapon/item itself that you're taking as an asset. For example, if I want to gain an asset of an assault rifle (D8), I would need to create an asset and get an effect die of D8 or higher.

This actually would make more narrative sense. Why would Thing pick up a car (which I might rate as a D10 or D12) to throw at someone if he could just grab a billy club (I would put at D6) and inflict the same effect? Instead, through this houserule, you would pick your weapon/asset based on the effect die that you were hoping to get out of it or in some cases, would be limited by what is within reach (i.e. you just can't get a D12 effect die weapon in a small room with tables and chairs and small items).

[Cam]

The Weapon power trait gives a pretty good set of guidelines for how powerful any given weapon is in die rating terms. I think it's actually far easier to reflect things like guns and other items with stunts (based on Combat, Covert, or Tech Specialty) or resources than applying a huge die to something like a handgun. Assets are best served as situational advantages or circumstances that may or may not include props but which for the most part are supposed to represent a narrative spotlight. Stunts and resources on the other hand are usually much more in the realm of what you're talking about.

Cheers,
Cam

[MidnightBlue]

Creating a weapon Asset can also make for a cool narrative.

"This action...I draw my pistol! I.e. create Asset. Next action I'll get to fire!"

[GabrielK]

This is just one of those areas where "narrative" games break the heads of "simulationist" players.

Yes, and to be honest, even with my players expressing interest in the game initially, I did think it would be harder for them to adjust to this aspect of the game than it turned out to be.

[Lee_Szczepanik]

This is off the top of my head, as if I was at the table right now and it came up on the fly . . . .

The way I would do such a disarm is by targeting a Trait. In the example in the book of targeting the Sentinel's Blaster d8, the player creates his pool and rolls against the Sentinel's pool with the Blaster d8 also tossed into it. The Watcher generates a total, as does the player. If the Player's total wins, and his Effect die is greater than the Blaster d8 rating, it's toast (if the E.D. is lower, the Blaster d8 is stepped back to Blaster d6 from taking at least some damage).

Okay, so I would say to target the trait as normal, and get an Effect die at least equal to the weapon die rating to disarm it. If you only step it back on that attempt, the narrative could say the two of you are wrestling for the weapon . . . or whatever the situation dictates.

Spend a Plot Point on a second Effect Die at least equal to the rating of the Weapon to create an Asset: effectively, you picked-up the weapon and can now use it in your next pool (otherwise, he's still disarmed but you just have a narrative gun). However, to be fair, the Weapon die remains the same. If it is a Gun d8, you have an Asset d8 created (even if you used a d10 or d12 for it). Even though a narrative game, the gun doesn't become more powerful (and the die step increases do represent gaining more power in MHR, as the ratings in Powers and Specialties show in the descriptions). What makes the Player's shot hurt more (or less) than when Mook #1 was shooting would be the Effect Die he generates when using said gun-- as that causes the Stress. Hitting with a d10 effect die represents a better shot on the target than a d6 effect die.

If the Asset is a single use, narrative can cover why. Maybe the hero runs out of remaining Ammo (if the mook gets it back-- if he survives long enough-- narrative says he had the clip to reload). Maybe the hero takes his shot and tosses it aside (cinematic fashion) and goes back to how he fights best. Again-- the narrative can cover the story reason.

(Note: Since technically the Trait was successfully targeted to disarm it [instead of destroy it], if the Asset was temporary [or none made at all] I would say the Watcher could spend a Doom Die at least equal to the rating of the Trait to give it back to the NPC. If not . . . then the gun was tossed away, or whatever makes sense for it to be gone from the character.)

If the player spends another PP, though, the Asset becomes persistent. Fire away until the end of the next Action scene. Remember, though, like any Trait, a Persistent Asset can also be targeted.


NOTE: I thought Assets had to be given to other Heroes to use in their pool, though. If so, then use the second effect die to create an Asset as normal (it can be of any die size, not limited as above). When you hand that die to another player, you aren't using the gun to directly attack the targets, but to provide cover fire to set-up your buddy's attack.