How to investigate

[EldritchFire]

I am wondering how y'all would deal with more mystery-centered games. I'm talking Dresden Files or Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter.

For those not familiar, Harry Dresden is a PI wizard, or a wizard who happens to do detective work for the Chicago PD. Anita Blake is a necromancer who consults with the St. Louis PD on preternatural cases. Pretty much each book starts out with someone dead, and the heroes have to find out who dunnit.

I can see several ways to do it, but would like some input from the rest of y'all.

1. Each clue is a complication that needs to be removed to discover the clue

This is a good one because The first few clues are easy to spot: the doom pool they are rolling against is small, so it's likely the clue be revealed. Later on, clues are harder to come by, since the doom pool has grown a fair bit.

1. The entire mystery is a large-scale threat

I like this idea because it pretty much is the exact opposite of the above option. a things get easier when the heroes get a "lucky break," AKA stress out one of the dice. Things start out slow and build up to the climax.

1. Each clue is a roll against the villain

This one just has the villain rolling to see how well s/he covered their tracks, and each roll off they lose create an asset for the players to use when solving the crime or actually acting against the villain.

What do you think, oh Internet think-tank? Any ideas I missed?

-EF

[MidnightBlue]

I think you've got some good options there.

For the Anita Blake game, I'd say it depends if we are talking her first handful of adventures or the last three-quarters.

For events modeled like her first few adventures, your ideas are very good. A lot of her insights come from direct confrontation with characters in the know...so you'd just be rolling against the NPC. Probably some social type rolls (emotional/mental stress?) and some combat rolls when things go bad.


For her later bunch of adventures Anita is much more powerful.

Anita Blake

Power Set - Shaking Hamilton's Money Maker

Power Trait - Last Vestiges of Self Respect D6

Power Trait - All the Monsters Want Me D12

SFX- Sleeping with the Enemy - Whenever you declare an action using All the Monsters Want Me D12, you can shutdown Last Vestiges of Self Respect to automatically get the effect you have declared. Recover Last Vestiges of Self Respect when Laurell K. Hamilton loses enough porn-seeking fans to return to the fan base that made her popular to begin with.


Clearly I have some repressed opinions about this character from a person who was my favorite author and one of my favorite characters until the plot became a tack-on to the sex stories.

Mind you, I'm not a prude...I just don't like my porn with that much attempt at plot.

[Mailer33]

I discuss my take on it in my own post, "How to Conduct A Manhunt"

It is currently floating around near the top of the first page. Wish I could link it, but unable to right now.

I'm also working on a post called "how to conduct a villain's reign of terror" which will include investigative elements.

[Defect]

I would hate to suggest this on the forums of this game, but as good as this game is you may be looking to make it do something it wasn't made to.


I would never run 4ed as a political drama game and fate shouldn't be a hack and slash.
For a game like that may I suggest taking a look a the Dresden Files RPG. Also maybe supernatural but I don't know a lot about it.

I am sure you could still have a lot of fun using this. However systems are a lot more fun to run if consider how the creators thought the game was going to be used.

[MidnightBlue]

I personally have always had trouble structuring and running investigative games.

All too often, what's the outcome if the players can't get the clues...the game goes nowhere.

So what I strive to do is try to make the investigation have challenges, but that the outcome is never that the players won't get the info. The players WILL get the info...that is assured in my games. After all, withholding info from them only makes MY job harder. Who needs that.

Therefore I try to structure the clues in freebie narratives and in breadcrumbs down the encounter path.

Whatever the PC's need to get them to the next step on the path is given to them in a narrative based on the PC's level of skill and luck. Then that next step is probably going to be an opposing character that has some added info. The PC's can try to get that info in a number of ways...persuasion, intimidation, beating it out of them, whatever.

The effect of complicating or stressing out the source of the info is that the info source spills the beans.

I could also see Scene Distinctions being used. You have to eliminate the Scene Distinction to get the clue...but it is worded/narrated in a way to require a particular skill set to really get a decent dice pool. Perfect time to pull out those investigative based specialties, power sets, distinctions, etc.

You could even make some interesting timed investigation scenes. I.e. You just took down the thug that ambushed you in the murder scene. You begin to look for clues, Scene Distinction (or Large Scale Threat or something) - "Forensics Nightmare," when you hear police sirens heading this way. You know the police aren't going to like you being here...and might just take you in for questioning as a suspect. If the Doom Pool gets to 2D12, the Watcher can have the police arrive.

Just some brainstorming while taking a lunch...maybe not all that eloquent.

[EldritchFire]

I personally have always had trouble structuring and running investigative games.

All too often, what's the outcome if the players can't get the clues...the game goes nowhere.

This is what I'm afraid of doing in my game. Mechanics make a nice pacing, well, mechanic to make sure things don't go too fast. On the flip side, as you said, is that the players get nowhere. I want to avoid that at all costs.

So what I strive to do is try to make the investigation have challenges, but that the outcome is never that the players won't get the info. The players WILL get the info...that is assured in my games. After all, withholding info from them only makes MY job harder. Who needs that.

Exactly what I'm looking for!

Therefore I try to structure the clues in freebie narratives and in breadcrumbs down the encounter path.

Whatever the PC's need to get them to the next step on the path is given to them in a narrative based on the PC's level of skill and luck. Then that next step is probably going to be an opposing character that has some added info. The PC's can try to get that info in a number of ways...persuasion, intimidation, beating it out of them, whatever.

The effect of complicating or stressing out the source of the info is that the info source spills the beans.

I could also see Scene Distinctions being used. You have to eliminate the Scene Distinction to get the clue...but it is worded/narrated in a way to require a particular skill set to really get a decent dice pool. Perfect time to pull out those investigative based specialties, power sets, distinctions, etc.

You could even make some interesting timed investigation scenes. I.e. You just took down the thug that ambushed you in the murder scene. You begin to look for clues, Scene Distinction (or Large Scale Threat or something) - "Forensics Nightmare," when you hear police sirens heading this way. You know the police aren't going to like you being here...and might just take you in for questioning as a suspect. If the Doom Pool gets to 2D12, the Watcher can have the police arrive.

Just some brainstorming while taking a lunch...maybe not all that eloquent.

Those are some good points, and I would love to hear more when you have the time!

For better understanding of what I'm wanting to do, I want to run a police procedural with supers. If there are supervillains, why can't the cops have a few supers on payroll?

Basics is the party is a special task force called in for all the supervillains that the "regular" police can't handle. Being in the Marvel universe, super humans are known, so someone out there will try to get them on the side of Truth, Justice, and the American Way, right?

Let SHIELD employ Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, and the like. Local PDs will recruit Dare Devil, Shadowcat, Elektra, etc. All the more "street level" and less likely to be cosmic heroes. Give them the backing of a badge, and see what they can do. Of course, that comes with red tape they have to manoeuvre around, too!

-EF

[EldritchFire]

Well, my browser accidentally ate the rest of my previous post, so I'm going to be brief. The earlier Anita novels, and I don't like Dresden Files RPG. I tried to like FATE, but it doesn't agree with me.

-EF

[blackwingedheaven]

The players WILL get the info...that is assured in my games. After all, withholding info from them only makes MY job harder.

I do the same thing in my games, inspired by the fantastic GUMSHOE system. For investigation scenes in my MHR-based stuff, I'm considering making investigation a roll against the doom pool during a Transition Scene. The mystery is an "opponent," and each die of "stress" inflicted against the mystery opens up new information. Once the mystery is "stressed out," the investigator has put the pieces together and any spillover trauma is used as a complication for the bad guys during the climactic confrontation.

Each time the doom pool grows during an investigation scene, there's a consequence. As Raymond Chandler put it, "When things slow down, have two guys with guns kick in the door." So once the doom pool adds X dice from investigation, a hit squad shows up. Once Y dice are added, the bad guys move their lair. If the doom pool grows to Z before the heroes figure it out, an innocent person suffers or dies.

This method ensures that the heroes will always get the information they need eventually, just possibly not in enough time to save everyone. It's kind of noir-ish, and every mystery basically has to be treated as its own challenge. There's no default set of things that happen; it's up to the Watcher to create a list of possible consequences of the investigators taking too long or working their opposition up too much.

[MidnightBlue]

For better understanding of what I'm wanting to do, I want to run a police procedural with supers. If there are supervillains, why can't the cops have a few supers on payroll?

Basics is the party is a special task force called in for all the supervillains that the "regular" police can't handle. Being in the Marvel universe, super humans are known, so someone out there will try to get them on the side of Truth, Justice, and the American Way, right?

Let SHIELD employ Hulk, Iron Man, Thor, and the like. Local PDs will recruit Dare Devil, Shadowcat, Elektra, etc. All the more "street level" and less likely to be cosmic heroes. Give them the backing of a badge, and see what they can do. Of course, that comes with red tape they have to manoeuvre around, too!

-EF

We did something like that in Aberrant where we were running a less-4-color world and more gritty-real-life-with-superheroes.

We had a take on how in the DC Universe many heroes have a city they call their own.

In our campaign, many of our heroes were officially hired and sanctioned "Civic Defenders."

Most cities can't afford a whole team on the payroll, so they might just scrape by to squeeze one into the budget.

(Note: It's also a cool story element for the GM. After all...what kind of animosity do you think might be brewing when the PD doesn't get that new shipment of kevlar vests because the city's civic defender just renegotiated his contract to include a downtown penthouse?

You can get some great PD vs. Civic Defender subplots going. Maybe there's a rogue faction of the PD trying to do "right" by the thin blue line...by framing the Civic Defender...and maybe not showing up when the CD calls in for police support...

But I digress...)


Back on topic (at least for a second or two)...

I'd probably run a procedural/investigative game relying heavily on Scene Distinctions for crime scene investigation (removing the SD gives you the clue) and interrogations of info sources.

1. I'd probably setup the Scene Distinctions early in the Act while the Doom Pool is low. I.e. The game begins with the PC's showing up at a crime scene.

Scene Distinction Success - Removal of the Scene Distinction gives the PC's clues that put the heroes on the track of a target.

Scene Distinction Failure - There really shouldn't be a chance for failure here unless there's a timed element. If there can be a failure in this stage, then I'd have the clues be misleading and point to a red herring...maybe another hero or antihero that prompts the tried-and-true hero-on-hero battle.


2. Once the PC's are on the trail of a suspect/info source, maybe use a Transition Scene to roll against the target's ability to keep from being found.

Tracking Down Success - PC's find their target and the Action Scene can begin.

Tracking Down Failure - The PC's STILL find their target...

...but said target has been forwarned and has added protection.

...but someone that doesn't want the PC's to find the target ambushes them.

...but if the target can lead the PC's to the REAL criminal, the PC's lead the REAL villain &/or his/her allies to the target too.


3. PC's have tracked down an information source...Interview/Interrogation Time! - Action Scene where the PC's try to get the info out of the source...by whatever means they choose.

Success - If the PC's stress or complicate out the target, they get the info they seek. This is the perfect opportunity for Emotional Stress actions and even Psychic Mental Stress actions. But...if the PC's are a little more in the gray areas (I'm looking at you Batman/Punisher), then the Physical Stress actions can be a viable option too.

Failure - If the PC's lose the Action Scene...any number of fun story elements can develop, but they STILL get the info.

-(My Favorite) The PC's get captured and the main villain spills the beans while gloating.

-The villain/info source escapes, but drops a clue out of his/her pocket in the confrontation.

-The villain/info source's lawyer ends the interview, but the PC's are given the info anyway...out of surveilence range. *Whispered while walking out of the police station, "But between you and me...yeah...I killed him. Not like you can ever prove it."*


I guess that's how I'd structure an investigative game...rinsing and repeating the elements as needed to get all of the bread crumbs.


Heck...you cold even take this to the court room. Give Matt Murdock his time in the spotlight in a court drama. Maybe run it as an Action Scene where Matt has to stress out all 12 jurors to get his innocent client's acquittal.

Though I'd go with Emotional Stress here. Physical Stress actions tend to be frowned on in the court room.

"Did you see my client at the scene of the crime!" Matt Murdock bellows at the witness as he beats on him repeatedly with his cane. "Well...ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!"

*POW, SLAM, MOMMY*