Hulk Smash! --How Do You Save Civilians?

[figurefour]

This sounds interesting. If you do it that way, how, mechanically, do you "save" the civilians? What do you roll against? if you win the roll, what do you apply your effect die to?

Well, when I was first thinking about this, I was thinking about a disaster without any villains involved, so you'd be rolling against the Doom Pool. I guess your effect die wouldn't really apply, since you just want the narrative outcome of "getting that civilian out of there".

However, if there was a villain on the scene, I'd probably let them try to react to the hero trying to save the civilians, which would pump the die pool up a bit and make the rescue attempt more dangerous.

[gebeji]

If i may chip in, in that case i would rather use a "Scene Complication", something the guys at MarvelPlotPoints are using in their Secret War Event.

I'm making rules for this as i go along so bear with me, because i fear if i don't this thread will have 4 more pages to read if i take more time to think about it

Setting one up would require spending a Doom dice, like for a new Scene Distinction (OM17), but that could start at d6, like for complications (OM29).

Here, after the Hulk starts pounding at everything, let's say we have : Civilians in Harm's Way at d8 to make things interesting.

Since complications usually target a specific hero/villain in order to hinder his actions, the Watcher could offer a PP to heroes willing to be burdened by it (meaning they actively try to save them while battling the Hulk)... even more interesting

To simulate unwillingly caused Collateral Damage from SFX such as Berserk or Unleashed, the Watcher simply has to use those die returning to the Doom Pool as effect dice to boost the complication, while the heroes try to get rid of it with their actions (OM54).

The same kind of upgrade could also simulate time-delayed results, like Cam also alluded to in a previous post, by having the Watcher either, step up the complication die by +1 after a set number of rounds, or using Doom dice from the pool at appropriate times to do it, until it ultimately breaches the d12 limit, usually ending the scene in some way

I think that covers it

[konate]

Mailer, I was wondering how this should be handled in your previously mentioned Hulk example:

Say the Hulk were to do an area effect thunderclap effecting all heroes and civvies. This would create physical stress for all involved since they are all in the blast radius/are targeted. The civvies are really *not* targeted since they are a distinction and, mechanically, an excuse to target the heroes for emotional stress.

So, in this case of area effect the heroes are, mechanically, targeted twice; once for emotional damage (bystanders distinction), and once for physical stress (the thunderclap, itself - I wonder which distinction should be used now, since the heroes are actively targeted, as well). This would require a doom die to keep an extra effect die to inflict 2 types of stress on the heroes. (does an extra DD need to be spent for EACH target?)

Would this be correct?

[Mailer33]

Konate,

You'll want to be doing some sort of area attack so as to effect all heroes caught in the shockwave--This as you said will be primarily physical stress.

But what about all the civilians caught in the shockwave? Well, you could try to set aside additional effect dice to hit the heroes with both physical and emotional stress--but that's a lot of dice to come up with and a lot of doom dice.

I recommend keeping it simple--narrate the civilians being knocked aside and hurt by the thunderclap--which means you can use "endangered civilians" scene distinction if you like, though in this case "hulk smash" would work just as well. But the main point of this attack is to hurt the heroes, so just deal out physical stress to heroes and forget the emotional stress this turn.

Long story short--the thunderclap would be a traditional area attack on the heroes physical stress track. Civilian and collateral damage would be narrated only or used to explain doom increases via opportunities.

[arthurfallz]

I see that there are a lot more ways to do this than making Scene Distinctions to represent these kinds of situations.

If a rampaging Hulk is causing collateral as a Watcher character, isn't he making an Asset? If the point of the scene is that "Hulk endangering innocents through his mindless rampage is causing the heroes grief", this seems to me like a great Asset he creates in the scene. He can use it both offensively (the heroes are so busy being worried about the innocents being thrown around by the force of his punches to properly defend themselves) and defensively (Hulk is just taking the blows, things are bouncing off, he's running around with no though to collateral).

It, in my view, gives the players some incentive to actually get rid of the Asset, as it's something they can justify doing in the story regardless of their power set, and easier than KO-ing the Hulk.

Heck, I can even see the Hulk as a PC using this in scenes where he's fighting the Army (if you're going for that kind of Hulk saga).

[Supplanter]

In last night's session we went the Specialty Character route. Bill spent a Doom Die to interrupt the turn order with an Expert Gas Main Leak D8, with Power Traits of About to Explode D[N] and Explosion D[N], the Limit: Can't use explosion until after using About to Explode. Nomad - the new one - left off fighting the Hulk (the old one? maybe.) to keep it from exploding. He took a successful action to transmute the leaking gas into a new metal casing. (Our Nomad is a sorcerer.)

It worked really well. It distracted a hero from attacking the Hulk for a turn. It gave the PCs a different die-pool/character to roll against, providing some variety. It lined up the mechanics with the fiction. It sidestepped what some of us still consider the "emotional-stress pitfall."

So people who are happy with the Scene Distinction/emotional stress option upthread can easily keep doing it that way. But if you're looking for an alternative, the specialty-character option works really well.


Jim

P.S. In the end, Magnitude resolved the Hulk situation with a YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY LAND ON LONG ISLAND SOUND D12+ Complication.

[Grimmshade]

I see that there are a lot more ways to do this than making Scene Distinctions to represent these kinds of situations.

If a rampaging Hulk is causing collateral as a Watcher character, isn't he making an Asset? If the point of the scene is that "Hulk endangering innocents through his mindless rampage is causing the heroes grief", this seems to me like a great Asset he creates in the scene. He can use it both offensively (the heroes are so busy being worried about the innocents being thrown around by the force of his punches to properly defend themselves) and defensively (Hulk is just taking the blows, things are bouncing off, he's running around with no though to collateral).

It, in my view, gives the players some incentive to actually get rid of the Asset, as it's something they can justify doing in the story regardless of their power set, and easier than KO-ing the Hulk.

Heck, I can even see the Hulk as a PC using this in scenes where he's fighting the Army (if you're going for that kind of Hulk saga).

Nice use of an Asset!
Stealing this one.

[drnuncheon]

I recommended something like this in a discussion about how to handle rescuing people from a burning building. Someone suggested statting up the FIRE as a character, which I thought was pretty much nuts. The burning building is clearly NOT a character.

I did this exact thing with a bridge (and several Scene Distinctions representing the endangered civilians) and it was voted the best villain of the game. In my experience it is an excellent way to handle "Man vs. Environment" action.

Mechanically, I gave the bridge the same SFX that Armor has, so as it attacked with its boosted powers it was doing stress to itself. And obviously if the bridge gets stressed out and collapses before the Scene Distinctions (Dangling Pedestrian, Frightened Family in Minivan and Panicked Crowd, IIRC) are taken care of…

The bridge "attacked" with falling concrete and snapping cables, and I still remember the "oh crap" look when I was finally able to use an opportunity to activate the second power set—one of the heroes was holding some cables together by brute force when gasoline from a ruptured tanker truck on the bridge's upper deck started to splash down on top of her. From then on it was explosions and fire and heroic sacrifices.

[Supplanter]

I did this exact thing with a bridge (and several Scene Distinctions representing the endangered civilians) and it was voted the best villain of the game. In my experience it is an excellent way to handle "Man vs. Environment" action.

Mechanically, I gave the bridge the same SFX that Armor has, so as it attacked with its boosted powers it was doing stress to itself. And obviously if the bridge gets stressed out and collapses before the Scene Distinctions (Dangling Pedestrian, Frightened Family in Minivan and Panicked Crowd, IIRC) are taken care of…

The bridge "attacked" with falling concrete and snapping cables, and I still remember the "oh crap" look when I was finally able to use an opportunity to activate the second power set—one of the heroes was holding some cables together by brute force when gasoline from a ruptured tanker truck on the bridge's upper deck started to splash down on top of her. From then on it was explosions and fire and heroic sacrifices.

That sounds fantastic.

Relatedly, I am strongly contemplating statting up a particular strain of Anti-Mutant Prejudice as a character for the next act of X-Men: Gamma Terra.


Jim

[Alric]

Thinking about representing endangered civilians as specialty characters and I had an idea.

Sprinkle a few, say 5, in a scene. They will get actions just like any other character. What will their actions be? Run about panicking and/or screaming for help... or to put it another way, Grandstanding. Effectively each round each endangered civilian (EC) will add a d6 to the doom pool. Going with 5 ECs that means each turn 5d6 would go into the doom pool! If your players are anything like mine they will pee themselves in terror the first time that happens and after that they will devote a great deal of attention and effort to save the ECs. In subsequent scenes ECs will instantly become a top priority.