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Character Creation?

Re: Character Creation?

Postby DarriusAdler » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:41 pm

SKINer wrote:Very bold idea.

Two questions:

1. How much?

2. Gimme!

(50 points goes to whomever gets the reference)

But seriously, that seems similar to what someone did with MnM 2nd edition (Freedom City play-by-post). It could work better with MHR, due to it's more simplistic and narrative nature (from what I hear, Freedom City pbp is a bit tenuous sometimes).


Its similar to PbP but in a live chat room setting. If your curious about what it looks like you can poke around this site: http://www.provinggroundsrpgchats.com/

They host a few chats, some more active than others. Io's Realm is by far the largest from what I can tell and of course it is 3.5 D&D. I have never seen a chat game like these done for supers. Most of them are WoD or 3.5 D&D. Long time ago White Wolf had chats like these set up on their official site for all their products plus some stuff Sword Sorcery Studios was putting out (Scarred Lands and Ravenloft.)

Proving Grounds also has an Unmoderated Chat area where anyone can run a game/use the dice roller to play a game. Just does not have the DM control over character sheets that the actual hosting provides.
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Re: Character Creation?

Postby EldritchFire » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:32 pm

DarriusAdler wrote:
pksullivan wrote:It's completely not true. Yes, the game includes lots of examples of established characters and the events are set in established crossovers in Marvel comics history (complete with Marvel characters).

You can make characters from scratch with just the Marvel book. Check out the character section of my website for examples of characters I've made (a bunch of them are for my Mass Effect hack of the MHR system). Or you could see the random character generator that Margaret Weis Productions put together.

As discussed in a lot of places, Marvel's character creation is very open ended and doesn't place many restrictions on character creation. There aren't any points to spend or levels to be gained. Some people don't like this, as they enjoy the constraints and the creative methods of playing with the system that constraints allow.

Other people really enjoy the freedom to make the character they want out of the gate, which is what Marvel encourages and promotes. It's more concept driven character creation than mechanical.

The only thing preventing someone from powergaming completely is the design of the character itself and the social contract of the group.


Ahhhh, ok. I expected a little more restraint in character creation than that but nice to know you can go as over the top as you want. Kinda figured I needed the Cortex book so I ordered that as well anyway.

I suppose maybe down the line someone can put together a point based character creation system to help try to keep characters relatively on par for level of power (which is my only real concern with total free form).



Just wanted to chime in here. Power balance is achieved in play, not in chargen. No matter how many do you roll in your pool, you only add two for your total. Sure, you can spend Plot Points to include more dice in your total, but that's not happening much for the "high powered" characters. Follow me here.

Your main source for Plot Points (PP) is opportunities, or when your roll a 1 on a die. The high powered characters are throwing around d10s and d12, not too likely to roll a 1. Lower powered characters are throwing around buckets of d6s with the occasional d8, which are more likely to roll 1s.

This means that the lower powered heroes are chucking smaller dice, but have more PPs to play with, so are stunting more (a stunt is when you pay a PP, describe how awesome you are, and add a d8 to your pool), adding in more traits, and including more dice in their total.

Granted, you can use a distinction as a d4 to gain a PP, but that's only good for one PP per roll, where as inf you roll 3 ones, you could get 3PPs from that roll!

tl; dr
Superman is rolling a handful of d12s, while Batman is sporting d6s and d8s. Batman rolls more 1s and gets more PPs, where as Supes is, well, boring.

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Re: Character Creation?

Postby victorvndoom » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:30 am

is there a list of power traits/powers available ? so you can roll them to randomly like in the old Faserip Superheroes game. I love the fun of rolling my own character(s) using that system
i might have missed them on the heroes generator pdf (i thought i missed a list of the powertraits there)
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Re: Character Creation?

Postby Cam » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:40 am

They're all in the Operations Manual. It's a rather long section.

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Re: Character Creation?

Postby Supplanter » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:37 pm

EldritchFire wrote:Just wanted to chime in here. Power balance is achieved in play, not in chargen. No matter how many do you roll in your pool, you only add two for your total. Sure, you can spend Plot Points to include more dice in your total, but that's not happening much for the "high powered" characters. Follow me here.

Your main source for Plot Points (PP) is opportunities, or when your roll a 1 on a die. The high powered characters are throwing around d10s and d12, not too likely to roll a 1. Lower powered characters are throwing around buckets of d6s with the occasional d8, which are more likely to roll 1s.

This means that the lower powered heroes are chucking smaller dice, but have more PPs to play with, so are stunting more (a stunt is when you pay a PP, describe how awesome you are, and add a d8 to your pool), adding in more traits, and including more dice in their total.

Granted, you can use a distinction as a d4 to gain a PP, but that's only good for one PP per roll, where as inf you roll 3 ones, you could get 3PPs from that roll!

tl; dr
Superman is rolling a handful of d12s, while Batman is sporting d6s and d8s. Batman rolls more 1s and gets more PPs, where as Supes is, well, boring.


This is all somewhat true, but only somewhat. I think it's important not to get too carried away with the general idea.

First: across any given dimension, more or bigger are better - meaning, give you a better chance of prevailing. Yes, when you roll 3d8 and I roll 5d8, we're each, by default, keeping only our top two dice. But probability means I'm going to have a better top two, on average over the long run. And, when you roll 4d8 and I roll 4d12, on average, my two best dice are going to total more than your two best dice. That's just math.

Here's a limit case: Take any existing datafile, and set every single Power Trait and Specialty to D8. Now make another copy and set every single Power Trait and Specialty to D10; and make a third where every single Power Trait is rated at d12. I think you will find that, yes, the D12 version overshadows the other two in play against real villain datafiles and real Doom Pools.

Plot Points are cool: love 'em! But there are some differences that, for player heroes, they have a hard time making up. In particular, it's not so easy to use PPs to get a D12 out of a default die-pool full of D8s. (Let alone D6s.) Multiple 1s don't step up for players who buy them the way they do for Watchers. Depending on how you read the rules, it seems like the only asset you can step up by buying opportunities is one you "just created." Against a Doom Pool of 5-6 dice with at least 1 D12 and a couple D10s and no D6s, this will matter. (e.g. on a healing action in a transition scene).

I think it's fair to say that the mechanics of play HELP to smooth out differences in power levels. AND, it's fair to say that there are enough layers to an MHRP character that it's not always clear what is and isn't "unbalanced." But I do not agree, based on my play of the game so far, that play as such levels the contributions that heroes make to an Event regardless of their trait scores. And while I realize you've played the game at least as much as I have and almost certainly more, I suspect you're doing so with datafiles that - like the ones in the Basic Game! - have all sorts of little "balancing bits" built into them. However consciously or not.

Finally: Superman is only as boring as his datafile, right? If you're using a datafile that makes Superman "boring," you need to rewrite it. :)


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Re: Character Creation?

Postby Spatula » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:59 pm

Supplanter wrote:Finally: Superman is only as boring as his datafile, right? If you're using a datafile that makes Superman "boring," you need to rewrite it. :)
SFX: Spin the World Backwards. Spend 1 PP to rewind time by 24 hours. You are unaffected, but everyone else on the planet has their location, memories, and status set to where it was 24 hours previously.

:)

It seems to me that your effect die really matters, and having it start at D12 is really sweet for inflicting stress and complications (and for targeting assets, and...). It puts 1-action knockouts within fairly easy reach; a nearly impossible outcome if you're working with a pool of D8s. But how many D12s does Superman have in his standard die pool? Part of the limit on effectiveness isn't just that everyone gets 2 numbered dice + 1 effect die (before spending PP), it's that around half of everyone's pool is affiliation (what would be Supe's ratings, anyway?) + distinction.
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Re: Character Creation?

Postby Supplanter » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:21 pm

Spatula wrote:But how many D12s does Superman have in his standard die pool? Part of the limit on effectiveness isn't just that everyone gets 2 numbered dice + 1 effect die (before spending PP), it's that around half of everyone's pool is affiliation (what would be Supe's ratings, anyway?) + distinction.


I think one of the ways you "balance" Superman is putting his D6 Affiliation in Team. And he gets only one Power Set:

Kryptonian Heritage [Doh!]
Godlike Strength D12
Godlike Durability D12
Godlike Speed D12
Space Flight D12
Enhanced Senses D10
Heat Vision D8
Super Breath D8

SFX: Invulnerability.
SFX: Versatile. (OR Multipower - whatevs)
SFX: Powers and Abilities Far Beyond What I Can Remember. Shut down highest-rated Kryptonian Heritage trait for a PP. Recover by activating an Opportunity or during a Transition Scene.
SFX: Seriously - FAR Beyond. All Strength-related Stunts start at D10, and step up as usual.
Limit: Shut Down Kryptonian Heritage power set in the presence of [laundry list of the things]
Limit: God Among Men. Turn any Kryptonian Heritage power trait into a Complication in exchange for a Plot Point. [Maybe swap this out for SFX: Unleashed.]
Limit: The Lead (Pb) thing with the eyes.

Specialties:
NO Combat rating - when you can dish it out AND take it like Supes, who needs skill?

Milestones: I'm too sleepy to do these now!


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Re: Character Creation?

Postby Mouse » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:19 pm

I find it a little hard to reconcile the idea of Supes tossing a d12 power, a d8 Distinction, a d6/d8/d10 Affiliation (depending) and that's it during a fight. Like, ever. (Let's call it d12, 2d8 for conversation, and assume the middle Affiliation die.) Because that's the baseline you're suggesting, and his baseline seems much, much higher than that.

Even with Versatile or Multipower, he's chucking 2d10, 2d8 as a base. I mean, Spider-Man throws d10, 4d8 on attacks, 2d10, 3d8 on defense. Superman needs to spend PP to beat up Spider-Man? That just seems weird to me.

Maybe this stuff will seem more clear once I actually get a chance to sit down and play. But sitting and reading, trying to represent someone like Superman has me scratching my head.
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Re: Character Creation?

Postby Majestic » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:47 pm

Yeah, I agree with you regarding the Specialty die for Supes, Mouse. He should get something for that.

One thing to remember, though, is that it isn't how many dice one is tossing, since you're really just using three (two for the total, plus one more for the effect).

Once you see things in play, you'll see that a character like Superman or Thor (with lots of Godlike powers and dice in the d10 and d12 category) do much better than the 'lesser' characters that are chucking d6's and d8's. They're simply way less likely to get 1's (as people have spelled out above).
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Re: Character Creation?

Postby victorvndoom » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:26 am

if you build up a powerset, wat are the steps in adding new powers inside the powerset ? How many powers can you have in a powerset or is that based on points ?
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