Character Creation?

[Supplanter]

I find it a little hard to reconcile the idea of Supes tossing a d12 power, a d8 Distinction, a d6/d8/d10 Affiliation (depending) and that's it during a fight. Like, ever. (Let's call it d12, 2d8 for conversation, and assume the middle Affiliation die.) Because that's the baseline you're suggesting, and his baseline seems much, much higher than that.

Even with Versatile or Multipower, he's chucking 2d10, 2d8 as a base. I mean, Spider-Man throws d10, 4d8 on attacks, 2d10, 3d8 on defense. Superman needs to spend PP to beat up Spider-Man? That just seems weird to me.

With Versatile, Supes D12 can become either 2D10 OR 3d8. You can get functionally the same dice from this writeup with Multipower; I like Versatile because it doesn't drive the same narrative pressure to rope in three different powers into every action.

As for the Specialties, when it comes to Combat specifically, my personal standard is: Luke Cage, Daredevil and Cyclops all have combat expert. The latter two definitely have spent a lifetime training as hand-to-hand fighters. And Luke Cage, before he ever got powers, was a bit of a rough guy. If I use power drainers on them AND Superman, and then set up a cage match among the four of them, do I expect Clark Kent to hold his own? I do not.

All that said, it's a preliminary writeup! I thought about giving Supes Unleashed but held off. He should probably have Area Attack.

Maybe this stuff will seem more clear once I actually get a chance to sit down and play. But sitting and reading, trying to represent someone like Superman has me scratching my head.

Having a chance to play multiple sessions as player and Watcher, with multiple Watchers, is really valuable. Seeing how play goes when, e.g. a Watcher prioritizes stepping Doom Dice up to D12 as quickly as possible vs. adding as many Doom Dice as possible, and when she works to hoard Doom Dice versus keeping the pool spent down, helps a lot to make wrinkles in the system manifest. Like, across that simple axis implied by the previous sentence, Healing actions work very differently in practice.

As for representing someone like Superman, it's tricky. Some versions you just can't represent in this system, I think, unless you go for the D20.


Jim

[Mouse]

Even with Versatile or Multipower, he's chucking 2d10, 2d8 as a base. I mean, Spider-Man throws d10, 4d8 on attacks, 2d10, 3d8 on defense. Superman needs to spend PP to beat up Spider-Man? That just seems weird to me.

With Versatile, Supes D12 can become either 2D10 OR 3d8. You can get functionally the same dice from this writeup with Multipower; I like Versatile because it doesn't drive the same narrative pressure to rope in three different powers into every action.

Even with the 3d8 option, you're still getting 5d8 versus Spider-Man's d10, 4d8/ 2d10, 3d8. Which is mind boggling, because Superman could basically stand still and let Spider-Man punch him all day long, and he's one of a relatively small number of comic characters that could trivially hit Spider-Man by being way faster than his reflexes.

As for the Specialties, when it comes to Combat specifically, my personal standard is: Luke Cage, Daredevil and Cyclops all have combat expert. The latter two definitely have spent a lifetime training as hand-to-hand fighters. And Luke Cage, before he ever got powers, was a bit of a rough guy. If I use power drainers on them AND Superman, and then set up a cage match among the four of them, do I expect Clark Kent to hold his own? I do not.

It really depends on which Superman we're talking about. Once he spends some time fighting folks like Zod who are as powerful as he is, I think it's reasonable to say that he had to pick up some fighting skill tricks.

And the grains on this system are really, really huge, so Combat Expert covers any character with fighting abilities, whether that's a lifetime of training or just barely enough to fight in a supers league.

All that said, it's a preliminary writeup! I thought about giving Supes Unleashed but held off. He should probably have Area Attack.

Unleashed sounds right to me. A lot of stuff with Supes has nothing to do with whether he wins or loses, but how much trouble he goes through in the process. Unleashed is a way to represent that.

As for representing someone like Superman, it's tricky. Some versions you just can't represent in this system, I think, unless you go for the D20.

Yeah, that's one of the problems with some comic characters. They have decades of super powered bloat. Leaps tall buildings Superman and flies around the Earth so fast that he turns back time Superman are really amazingly different characters.

Really, Superman doesn't fit well in games where failure is a frequent concern. Well, failure at tasks. Because he's always strong enough, fast enough, and tough enough to accomplish basically anything. Need to nudge the Earth a little farther out in its orbit to fix global warming? Sure, no problem. The stuff he worries about isn't success or failure the way other people do, but whether he can succeed perfectly or merely amazingly, and whether his success costs too much or not.

I tend to prefer versions of Superman at a lower power level. Batman Beyond's Superman is good for this. He smears Inque in like three seconds flat, but he doesn't simply win without any effort against Batman.

[N01H3r3]

It really depends on which Superman we're talking about. Once he spends some time fighting folks like Zod who are as powerful as he is, I think it's reasonable to say that he had to pick up some fighting skill tricks.

In the pre-Flashpoint comics at least, Superman had spent time training with Ted Grant (the original Wildcat, and a man who taught fighting skills to many of the DCU's heroes - Batman and Black Canary included), which I think is sufficient for Combat Expert by any stretch.

Unleashed sounds right to me. A lot of stuff with Supes has nothing to do with whether he wins or loses, but how much trouble he goes through in the process. Unleashed is a way to represent that.

Given that most incarnations of Superman are depicted as holding back from using their full power to avoid collateral damage, Unleashed is perfect for him, particularly when combined with either Multipower or Versatile (I prefer Multipower, personally, as Superman has so many powers to begin with).

I tend to prefer versions of Superman at a lower power level. Batman Beyond's Superman is good for this. He smears Inque in like three seconds flat, but he doesn't simply win without any effort against Batman.

The DCAU Superman was typically depicted as a fairly low-powered version of the character, generally speaking, though he did show greater power in a few episodes (the finale of Justice League Unlimited, where he gives his "World Made of Cardboard" speech to Darkseid is a particularly iconic example of this, and works well to justify the Unleashed SFX.

[Mouse]

Mate, you left one of Jim's quote tags in when you were responding to me. You might want to fix it just to avoid confusion.